Would a Norton 4/8K and 0.5 chromium be enough?

So I an have essentially no experience at honing at this point. I have a shave ready Wapi that I am using and a Filly strop with 0.5 chromium oxide on the back. I also have have a Norton 4k 8k for honing, which I have actually never tried. Anyways, my question is; I hear people talking about using polishing stones to finish off the razor. I am wondering if I already have a shave ready razor that went dull from excessive shaving, but no damage otherwise, would having the Norton and then moving to the chromium oxide be enough to get it back to an awesome shaving edge, or would a polishing stone really be needed to get that final edge? If this were the case, what would be recommended to obtain this?

Yes, you can resharpen a razor on the 4K/8K and then go directly to the chromium oxide. The thing that isn't talked about enough, IMO, is that the Norton has to lapped fairly frequently and abrasive paper is not a good option. Several people have reported (including me) getting grit stuck in the 8K side that forces you to get something else (Norton flattening stone or DMT diamond hone) to lap it.

I love the Norton 4/8k stone, it is my favorite hone because it is so reliable and consistent. Yes, it does get a lot of swarf embedded in it, but all you have to do is lap it to clean it.

Funny thing is, I often shave off the 8k on the Norton right after a quick stropping on CrO and leather, I think it's all you need to get a good shave. Other high grit hones, and finishing hones will improve the edge, but they're more of a luxury to the shave. I actually shaved with an ERN razor this morning, that I've recently honed completely on the 4/8K, I stropped it on leather right after. The shave was very good and complete. I've actually never had any problems using Norton wet/dry sandpaper for lapping the stone. All you have to do is rinse it often while your lapping it.

Give it a shot! :beer2:

I would say give it a try and see how it works for you. You can always pick up a finishing stone. When the razor starts to pull a little, give it 5-7 strokes on the 8K side of the Norton and then 10 strokes on the chromium oxide, strop and test to see if its there for you. If pretty close but not perfect, another 5-10 on the chromium oxide should bring it around.

Lynn

Seems there are 2 ways to eventually get to the same place. Some start with norton 4k/8k (and maybe suppliment with paste), then later purchase a finisher like a corti or escher to improve smoothness--, others start with a corti (and maybe suppliement with a BBW) using slurry for the first progression, then just water for the second, then later purchase a norton 4k/8k to improve keeness (to be used instead of the slurry on the corti for the first progression).

I started from the second place, and with it my razors are just barely sharp enough, but very smooth, and will eventually get a norton to work on the keeness side of the equation.

-Chief

Everyone has a different method that works for them or they just prefer. I start out by trying the 8000 Norton now Naniwa(10 passes) then ChrOx or Diamond paste at the .05 size on a 4 sided strop then use the leather strop for about 35 passes.
To many passes on ChrOx will actually dull a blade so go easy and test often after 8 or so passes.
Also I do use an Escher or Coticule at times if the blade isn't where I want it but close after the 8000 then move on to the diamond paste for 5 passes then the leather strop. One thing you'll find out is every razor even the same brand has it's own personality as far as sharpening that's one reason people have different methods. There's nothing written in stone and for most it's trial and error until you learn. Be patient and don't expect to be able to perfectly hone for several months at least. The trip is worth it and very interesting. Your not going to hurt anything as long as you go slow.
A finishing stone is nice to have and eventually you'll want one. Ask questions because most anyone here is glad to help:-)

yes..............................

Hi! I only have a Norton 4K/8K, and a CrOx paste strop, and a normal strop. I have some razors, that were absolutely dull, when i got them, and some i had cleaned, so they had absolutely no edge at all. Until now, i could hone all my razors without any problem.

So IMO it's enough to have a Norton, and the CrOx strop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BHChieftain

I started from the second place, and with it my razors are just barely sharp enough, but very smooth, and will eventually get a norton to work on the keeness side of the equation.

-Chief

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The beauty and curse of natural stones I guess, you seem to have a totally different stone to mine!

I think the original question has been answered, it should be enough.

Yes, it is more than enough. I do it all the time. It is my standard routine.

IMO you have all that you need for a great shave for years to come.

Enjoy :)

Yes, in fact you can probably do without the CrO paste and go directly to an unpasted strop.

Another vote for it being enough. Matter of fact when I first started honing my own I had the 4/8 and a Swaty. At that time the word on the forum was that the Swaty was equal to a 12k grit and I would do the 4/8 and finish on the Swaty with water as if it were a regular hone. This was working well.

Shortly thereafter I got quite a bit of help from Randydance through PMs and over the phone. He advised me to shave test after the 4/8 for a more accurate assessement of my razor's sharpness and my honing skills. I began to do that and I was surprised at what a smooth and comfortable shave can be got from the 4/8 and the strop all by themselves. The chrom ox came later for me and was icing on the cake.

I still shave off of the 4/8 before moving up the ladder to assess the edge. Randy also said,"Do not be surprised if the razor is not quite perfect. Just go back and perform a conservative pyramid then strop and test shave again. It is not unusual for me to take 2-3-4 honing sessions to dial in an edge".So as my Mom used to say, if at first you don't succeed try and try again. :)

I like this method coming off the 4/8K Norton stone, move to a multi sided strop with pastes 3.0/1.0/.50 before moving to the canvass/leather strop. I believe the 3.0/1.0/.50 have a similar performance to a 10K - 12K+ finishing stone.

Pabster

Okay. My Norton kit arrived today. So I have the 220/1000, 4000/8000 Nortons and the 500/1000/4000/8000/16000 Shaptons. I'm not having any luck with the Shaptons, that's why I just bought the Nortons and a couple of nice (read: Greaves, Torrey, etc.) vintage razors to practice on. I personally think I'm overhoning, so I'm going to try both the aggressive and conservative pyramids. My guess is that the Norton series is better for practicing on than the Shaptons.

My failure to hone properly I blame on being new to it, however after reading this thread I'm wondering if I can go from the 8k Norton to the 16k Shapton then linen and leather without the CrO2 strop. Has anyone tried this and had any luck?

I'm also wondering if I need to buy a couple of other strops. Do I need to keep the strops separate, i.e., CrO2 for one, diamond paste for the other, etc? :confused: I'm tired of spending money already :p

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Originally Posted by CableDawg

Okay. My Norton kit arrived today. So I have the 220/1000, 4000/8000 Nortons and the 500/1000/4000/8000/16000 Shaptons. I'm not having any luck with the Shaptons, that's why I just bought the Nortons and a couple of nice (read: Greaves, Torrey, etc.) vintage razors to practice on. I personally think I'm overhoning, so I'm going to try both the aggressive and conservative pyramids. My guess is that the Norton series is better for practicing on than the Shaptons.

My failure to hone properly I blame on being new to it, however after reading this thread I'm wondering if I can go from the 8k Norton to the 16k Shapton then linen and leather without the CrO2 strop. Has anyone tried this and had any luck?

I'm also wondering if I need to buy a couple of other strops. Do I need to keep the strops separate, i.e., CrO2 for one, diamond paste for the other, etc? :confused: I'm tired of spending money already :p

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I don't have any of the Shaptons, but I've read of people using the Shapton 16k after the Norton 8k, so it should work just fine.

You most definitely need seperate strops for different pastes. You don't want to go mixing pastes on strops, generally a bad idea. So would need a seperate stropping surface for each type of paste. That's the reason why people like Tony Miller manufacture the 4-sided paddle strop, so you can have 4 different types of pastes used more conveniently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CableDawg

Okay. My Norton kit arrived today. So I have the 220/1000, 4000/8000 Nortons and the 500/1000/4000/8000/16000 Shaptons. I'm not having any luck with the Shaptons, that's why I just bought the Nortons and a couple of nice (read: Greaves, Torrey, etc.) vintage razors to practice on. I personally think I'm overhoning, so I'm going to try both the aggressive and conservative pyramids. My guess is that the Norton series is better for practicing on than the Shaptons.

My failure to hone properly I blame on being new to it, however after reading this thread I'm wondering if I can go from the 8k Norton to the 16k Shapton then linen and leather without the CrO2 strop. Has anyone tried this and had any luck?

I'm also wondering if I need to buy a couple of other strops. Do I need to keep the strops separate, i.e., CrO2 for one, diamond paste for the other, etc? :confused: I'm tired of spending money already :p

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Did you lap your stones?

A newbs vote for a newbs new honing kit:

1. A DMT8C for lapping other stones

2. A 1K stone of your choice. Norton, Shapton, Naniwa.. whatever fits your budget.

3. A 4k stone of your choice

4. A 8k stone of your choice

5. Pasted strop with either chrome ox or .50 diamond on it.

6. A combo webbed fabric and red latigo leather strop. The fabric really helps to touch up any honing inadequacies, and the extra draw of a latigo strop is easier (IMO) to learn to strop on without making stropping mistakes.

More stones is certainly more fun, but the above should be enough to get a guy comfortably started, in this newbs opinion.

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Originally Posted by Bladerunner

Did you lap your stones?

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I didn't bother with the Shaptons because they were brand new. The lapping plate is about $279, so I might purchase that next month.

The Nortons came with a resurfacing stone, but I'm hoping I don't have to resurface a new stone right out of the box. Not a biggie if that's what someone would recommend.

I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't a necessity to have the lapping plate for the Shaptons and that something else could be used. They looked great right out of the box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CableDawg

I didn't bother with the Shaptons because they were brand new. The lapping plate is about $279, so I might purchase that next month.

The Nortons came with a resurfacing stone, but I'm hoping I don't have to resurface a new stone right out of the box. Not a biggie if that's what someone would recommend.

I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't a necessity to have the lapping plate for the Shaptons and that something else could be used. They looked great right out of the box.

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I would say that your problem is that you did not lap your stones. Even though they are new, there are imperfections. Try it and let us know how you do. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CableDawg

I didn't bother with the Shaptons because they were brand new. The lapping plate is about $279, so I might purchase that next month.

The Nortons came with a resurfacing stone, but I'm hoping I don't have to resurface a new stone right out of the box. Not a biggie if that's what someone would recommend.

I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't a necessity to have the lapping plate for the Shaptons and that something else could be used. They looked great right out of the box.

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My Shaptons weren't even *close* to being flat when I received them new. They were very un-even...kinda "wavy". There's also been a few threads about Norton's needing to be honed when new, as well.

In addition to flattening the Shaptons, lapping also put a fresh "face" on them. Prior to lapping, all of my shaptons had a rough texture on the surface regardless of the grit.

I've found a scotch brite pad under running water removes any grit embedded in your Norton.

Jordan

My recommendation is to try it. Work under magnification so you can see what is actually happening to the blade. Check before you start and then after 20 strokes. I like the Radio Shack Illuminated Microscope for this as it's quick and handy. ($12 at RS).
Part of the fun of this hobby is trying different things. After awhile look into getting a finishing stone. Use your face to test the blade.