I think it's time to try an ALL natural progression

Hey all,

So after I clean up this Crown razor I just won: Crown Razor Co. Straight Razor with box on eBay.ca (item 150355608051 end time 06-Jul-09 10:00:38 EDT)= I've decided to hone it with a method that I haven't tried before.

Typically what I've done is use my DMT/Nortons to create the bevel and sharpen up to 8000, then take it to my naturals (coticules, thuringians, nakayama) for the polishing and finishing.

But what I'm going to try to do is the following:

1) Tape the spine.
2) Lightly run the edge over the rim of a glass to remove any micro-chips.
3) Set the bevel on a coticule with fairly heavy slurry. I'll use the marker test to ensure the whole edge is being honed, and test with the TNT.
4) After the bevel is set I'll do a few laps on the coticule with a fresh light slurry. Perhaps 20-30 laps.
5) 50-100 laps on the BBW side of my coticule with a light slurry.
6) 50-100 laps on the BBW with just water.
7) 50-100 laps on the coticule with just water.
8) 50-100 laps on my nakayama with just water for the finish.

I'm not sure if the BBW with just water (step #6) is necessary, but figure it can't hurt. Do you think the number of laps for the coticule/BBW is reasonable given that the bevel is set correctly? This will be the first time I've used my coticule and BBW for anything other than polishing, so I'm new at this. I have a feeling step #3 will be the step that will be the most difficult, but I want to try. :) I didn't give an estimate of number of laps for step #3 since I think it really depends on the initial condition of the razor and frankly I have no idea how many it will take. I've read threads and posts about just using the coticule and BBW, but I think it's about time I give it a shot since I have the equipment.

It would be nice if this method works since I only need 2 stones to complete the entire progression, my coticule/BBW glued combo and my nakayama. The nakayama wouldn't even be necessary since I do like the edge off of the coticule, but it's better when finished on the nakayama :D. But, the edge off of the naturals I'm used to is one that was previously sharpened on synthetics, so I'm concerned that my sharpness will be lacking with just the naturals.

Oh well, I have the stones so I might as well experiment with them! When the razor comes I will post the results of my progress. Wish me luck!

Worse case scenario I can always bust out my DMT 1200 and Norton 4k/8k if I give up. :p

Dave,

Sounds like a lot of fun! I think step 3 will be the longest, and you might be surprised how much it may take to reset the bevel after only a few passes on the glass.

Are you trying to find the feasibility of your 2 stones as a combo, or are you trying to set up a system by using 50-100 passes on each step?

I think you shouldn't limit yourself to the amount of passes, but just use as many as it takes. Other than that, it sounds great!

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Originally Posted by jendeindustries

I think you shouldn't limit yourself to the amount of passes, but just use as many as it takes. Other than that, it sounds great!

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Just what I think as well.

Are you looking at your edge under magnification to ascertain if there are chips ? When Bart recommended the glass trick it was to dull the razor for sure to avoid false readings of sharpness during the honing process. I think he figured that starting with the edge uniformly dull would be better than having some areas of the edge keener than other areas. IME running the edge on a glass won't be an effective way to remove micro chipping.

If the edge is not too bad (micro chipped) flat honing has always worked best for me. In the long run I have found that through the bevel setting and early sharpening the chips will be gone as I progress. If they are too deep for that then the light (or whatever it takes) breadknifing on a stone, not a glass, is the step I take.

As for setting a bevel on a coticule, as Bart posted in the 'one coticule honing' thread it can be done but it is not the most efficient way to go about it IME. I mean if you want to do it just to say that you did that is fine. I have done it on a couple but give me the Shapton 1&2 K pro or the DMT 1200 anyday.

As for your natural progression, I've done that BBW with slurry followed by the yellow with water frequently. Works well by themselves or if I wanted to add some icing on the cake follow with an Escher blue/green or yellow/green.

The only thing I would suggest is that instead of planning on how many strokes that you are going to do you rely on the TPT and the hair popping to see when it is time to move up in the progression. I see no point in using more strokes than necessary once you have maxed out on the level of keenness. Not that what I am saying is 'better' than what you are getting ready to do, just what I would do if it were me. :)

Experiment is the best way to learn. good luck and let us know the results.

to add to what jimmy said. Setting the bevel on a breadknifed razor is a b*tch on a dmt. I would imagine it would take some time on the coticule.

Thanks for the responses!

As far as the number of strokes go the number I gave wasn't so much as what I plan to do, but more so of how many I would expect it to take. Does that make sense? If I find that the scratches under 30x from the coticule w/slurry are still visible after the BBW even after 50-100 strokes, then I'll do more. It's just that I've never done it before, so I was just wondering if 50-100 would be a reasonable number of strokes per step to get the edge to where I wanted.

I wasn't really planning on breadknifing the edge on glass, but rather just running it over the glass 1-2 times with no pressure to more or less smooth out the edge and uniformly dull it. Jimmy mentions Bart's method, and that is where I got the idea in the first place. After I get the razor I'll assess how the edge is and see if it even needs it in the first place. I'll probably avoid the glass step though, seeing as Jimmy said it's not effective in removing micro-chips, and he has more experience than I. :)

I really suspect this will take some time, but that's ok. More time to bond with my stonies. :D

After I do the progression (assuming it works), I'll report on approximately how many strokes it took for each step. I'll try to keep count anyways, I might get lost in the zen of the experience. :rolleyes:

Well I haven't gotten the razor that I initially planned on testing this progression out on, but I used it on another. I dulled my little W&B (designated testing razor :) ) by lightly running it over a rim of a glass. It would not shave hair at all off of my arm, no matter how much pressure used.

I formed a slurry on my coticule, and proceeded to set the bevel again. This step actually didn't take too long since it wasn't far off as it was shave-ready before I dulled it. Still took a bit of time though. I started with diagonal strokes on each side and then just progressed to the simple X pattern with the slurry. When it felt good on the TPT, I went to the BBW. I formed a light slurry on the BBW and ended up doing about 100 passes and the scratches looked pretty uniform after that. Just for kicks I did another 100 on the BBW, but with water only. Then I went to the coticule again, but with just water. I ended up doing 150+ strokes as it took a bit of time to get the scratches out from the BBW.

I don't have a strop (since today) because I am trading it for a vegan strop with another member. So I improvised, I used the back of my belt! It actually stropped pretty well on the smooth surface of the belt, I was surprised. So I honed and stropped real old school. ;) I showered and shaved, and it went pretty well. Not quite as sharp as what I'm used to (well, my last shave was with a razor finished on a nakayama, so it's tought to compare to) but was still quite good. Was as good as when I finish on a coticule after the norton 8000. Despite the slight lack of sharpness compared to the nakayama, it was quite smooth on my skin, ah the coticule. :)

So I think it's ready for an upgrade now, i.e. some laps on the nakayama. That'll have to wait for now, since it has some drying lacquer on it right now.....

In conclusion, all all natural progression is very doable! It took more laps than if I used a DMT to set the bevel then the Nortons, then went to the naturals to polish. But it can be done! :tu

yes i have done a similar thing and find you get a decent shave but coti with slurry never gives me a sharp edge like 4k/8k and then coti etc but i prefer honing with naturals for some reason it just feels better.

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Originally Posted by gary haywood

yes i have done a similar thing and find you get a decent shave but coti with slurry never gives me a sharp edge like 4k/8k and then coti etc but i prefer honing with naturals for some reason it just feels better.

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I agree, it does feel better. One thing that I do like about the coticule and BBW is that the surfaces don't load up with gunk during honing.

A natural progression is best when stackable:borg: