Franz Swaty Hone

Hi Folks, recently won a Franz Swaty hone in excellent shape on ebay few days ago. I have received it and it's in excellent condition. But now, does anyone know what grit this would be? It's a very dark brown in color, and if you look at it carefully on both sides it looks like it contains fine metal speckles in it thru out the entire hone. No chips, cracks or breaks of any kind and doesnt even look used to me. Were the Swaty hones used in barber shops and by barbers? Any info is as always appreciated :D Hone even contains the original paper with the Swaty guarantee and honing directions included as well. Pretty neat to have I assume.

The Swaty has been described as a finishing hone. It is a very fine hone that should probably be used after the 8000 Norton. Like all classic barber hones it will accumulate metal unless a lubricant such as water or lather is used. It has been around for a long time.

Hope this helps,

It's probaby 10,000 to 12,000 grit. You don't necessarily need to use this hone with the Norton. If you have an edge that's pretty good but needs refreshing you can do afew swipes on the barber hone only and then strop. The number you do will depend on the condition of the edge.

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Originally Posted by Techy

Hi Folks, recently won a Franz Swaty hone in excellent shape on ebay few days ago. I have received it and it's in excellent condition. But now, does anyone know what grit this would be? It's a very dark brown in color, and if you look at it carefully on both sides it looks like it contains fine metal speckles in it thru out the entire hone. No chips, cracks or breaks of any kind and doesnt even look used to me. Were the Swaty hones used in barber shops and by barbers? Any info is as always appreciated :D Hone even contains the original paper with the Swaty guarantee and honing directions included as well. Pretty neat to have I assume.

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Hey Techy,
I have a Norton combo water stone that I use for real honing jobs, but I do like ceramic "barber hones", like the Swaty. I have a Swaty and a few others, including a two-sided barber hone (different grits on each side).
I keep one in the bathroom for touch-ups. If I find that I start a shave with a stropped razor that's pulling, not quite keen enough, a few swipes on a barber hone, and re-stropping on plain leather, typically brings it right back. Generally, I use mine dry, with good results. BTW, a strop with sharpening paste can be good for this, too.
Some of my barber hones have some shiny specks and some don't. Just the nature of the ceramic.
After some use you will see where metal loads up a bit on the hone. I clean mine with soap and water, scrubbing lightly with a cloth; that takes off most of the stuff.
Every str8 razor shaver should have a Swaty or similar stone. Good purchase.
Parry

I agree. I use either the ITSAPEECH, or my VELVET EDGE barber hones as fine finishing hoes, as well. I now use them the exact same as you guys ....if the edge needs a little buffing just before, or even during , a shave. Refreshes the edge quickly, and after a bit of stropping is back to keen again.

I have used these hones to increas the number of weeks between hitting the real stones (4K-8K-13K) again.

Plus, there are just FUN to have!!! :)

Best -

I have a Pike Newshell Swaty, so I assume the word swaty means something and is not a brand name? I assume my Swaty is a finishing stone too? I'm curious. Mine came with the original directions and box, so it was pretty cool. It says:

Lay the blade flat and draw it, edge foremost, the length of the hone. Do not lift the blade but roll on its back and reverse the motion. It is immaterial whether blade is held diagonally or straight across. Five strokes are usually sufficient. Light pressure only in needed. Wipe off hone with damp cloth every time after using; this removes all accumulation of steel. After honing always finish on a Pike Newshell Strop, the proven leather for razors.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I have a Pike Newshell Swaty, so I assume the word swaty means something and is not a brand name? I assume my Swaty is a finishing stone too? I'm curious. Mine came with the original directions and box, so it was pretty cool.

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That's one fine maintenance hone! I also have a Pike Swaty and it is certainly a Swaty comparable with, though not exactly the same as, the other half dozen Swatys I have (two and three line American, Austrian and Yugoslovakian...). I don't know why I have collected so many? Tilly sells (or used to sell) a NOS "Premier" hone that works very much like a "swaty" type hone and is one of my favorites.

Hal

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

The Swaty has been described as a finishing hone. It is a very fine hone that should probably be used after the 8000 Norton.

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I would not classify a Swaty as finishing hone, but rather as a maintenance hone. Hones such as the Itsapeech, Velvet, Peaches and Cream, Honemaster are all finishing hones designed to finish the edge established with a coarser grit hone. I would not use a Swaty like I would use one of these hones. A Swaty is used to maintain an edge that has already be established, without resorting to coarser grit hones or a lenghty honing procedure. It is used more frequently than other hones and 4 or 5 very light passes should be all that is necessary to restore a keen edge. Swaty's are also very useful for backhoning, when needed.

Hal

I keep seeing this. What do "two line" and "three line" mean.

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Originally Posted by halwilson

I have (two and three line American, Austrian and Yugoslovakian...).
Hal

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Good question Joe. Well, so far as I can tell, the imprint on the topside of the hone either has two lines of script or three lines of script. That does not mean, however, that the hones are identical. How they differ, I cannot say at present.

Hal

Sorry to revive a long dead thread, but yesterday I found a stash of straight razors, old safety razors, and a very old Franz Swaty hone in my Dad's stash of antiques from an old family home.

The Franz Swaty stone has some very minor surface damage to it on both sides. This is from being stored in an old Old Spice box for the last fifty or so years. Is it possible to lap the Swaty stone? I really don't want to use it with the surface in the shape it's currently in. What would be a good choice to lap it with, if it's possible to lap it?

Thanks in advance...

You can definitely lap that sucker up. It does take some work because it is a VERY hard stone. It took me about 30 minutes to lap my few on a DMT 325. Good luck and enjoy.

IsaacRN, thank you very much! I'm ordering the DMT dia-sharp extra fine and extra extra fine hones today. If the EF won't lap the Swaty, I'll order the coarse dia-sharp. It would be nice to have on hand for knives, anyway.

Thanks again!

Edit: Now I just need to find directions on how to correctly use the Franz Swaty, and where it would fall in the sharpening progression. Anyone spare a link or a few words of advice?

I would really suggest getting the coarse stone. It is an all around GREAT stone for lapping most hones. I really dont think the EF or EEF DMT would be good for lapping personally...and its a good possibility that you may ruin the finer DMT's.

I agree with Isaac. I own all DMT D8s except the EEF. Trying to lap on the D8E would take you forever if at all. I do use the D8E for final lapping of my natural stones, but that's only doing maybe 25 passes on a hone/stone that's already been lapped by the other DMTs in progression.

Chris L

You guys have me convinced; I'll get the coarse one, too.

I've been reading up on the Swaty, and I see it's around 10k-12k. The only remaining question: wet or dry?

Wet...you dont need to soak it though. But when you hone with it, splash some water on it.

I prefer to use my swaty with a little bit of lather, I believe the soap keeps the metal particulite suspended in the lather rather than embedding in the stone. As for instructions about use just look a couple of posts ahead of your request for instructions(AFDAVIS11).

What ever happened to our good friend AFDavis? Either he is remarkably silent these days or I don't see so swell.

I wondered the same thing, Bruce. Where has Alan been?

We should have a "Where are they now" sticky where we can post such things. There was another guy, Dewey from TX that seemed to have dropped off the map.

Chris l

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

IsaacRN, thank you very much! I'm ordering the DMT dia-sharp extra fine and extra extra fine hones today. If the EF won't lap the Swaty, I'll order the coarse dia-sharp. It would be nice to have on hand for knives, anyway.

Thanks again!

Edit: Now I just need to find directions on how to correctly use the Franz Swaty, and where it would fall in the sharpening progression. Anyone spare a link or a few words of advice?

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Go here and find the two images of actual Swaty instructions. However, be aware that these are from a Swaty Alumin, which was a two sided hone. Most of the Swatys are homogenous so both sides are the same.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

I've been reading up on the Swaty, and I see it's around 10k-12k. The only remaining question: wet or dry?

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I'm not sure there is really a fixed answer to this one. Different razors like different things. In general, I like to polish on my Swaty, and then if I feel the need I do just a few passes with water. I've never tried lather, but that's just because I don't typically have lather around while I'm honing. Try them all, see what works.

get the coarse one i ruined a ef dmt on my other hones

The advantage of lather over water on a hone such as a Swaty is that the water tends to bead up and get pushed off of the hone, while the lather just gets moved around.

I got my Swaty twenty years ago from an old barber in Newark, NJ. At the time he showed me how he used it. He would keep one in his barber's smock and if a razor needed a touch up between shaves he would dry hone just a few passes. He only used the Swaty dry for touch ups until he had time to get back to his coticule with lather. He stressed that he only did a few passes to avoid over honing.

When I finally got into straight razor shaving successfully 8 months ago I lapped mine on a D8C and like IsaacRN it took a half hour. I used my Swaty with water to follow my Norton 8K until I bought other finishing stones. Now that I have those it has been sitting in the medicine cabinet.

On the three line versus two line thing, it seems that the original Swaty was made in Austria and was a big seller with barbers way back when. As previously mentioned the originals were made with both two lines of text and three. Apparently the three line must have been favored by professional barbers.

Back in those days traveling salesmen would go to barber shops and peddle their wares. I imagine that they had a lot of requests for the three line Swaty. Word got back to the suppliers and as a result The American Hone Co out of NY actually manufactured a hone that was embossed "Three Line Hone"on the end. Pike out of New Hampshire also had their "Pike Swaty". So I suppose, imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, they were trying to horn in on the original Swaty's market.

I use lather on barber hones all the time but I never tried it on a coticule. I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I use lather on barber hones all the time but I never tried it on a coticule. I'll have to give that a shot. Thanks!

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The old barbers in Newark would use the lather from their hot Lather King machines on coticules. FWIW, a friend of mine who hones on DMTs says that a drop of dish washing liquid soap is very good on the diamond plates. Lubricates the surface. I don't hone on them so I haven't tried it. I may try the lather on a coticule. I would make it thin though the way it is out of those machines.

JoeD brought his coticule over to my place when we met up; IIRC, he said that if he's using it without slurry, he uses a drop or two of dish soap.

I started a thread on the soap/hone topic here so we don't hijack this one. :shrug: