Dilemma: Learning to Hone on Ebay Special

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07-22-2009, 01:48 PM
squash1978

Dilemma: Learning to Hone on Ebay Special

So after getting my first straight last October I've decided that it's time to learn how to hone. I decided to start with a beginner setup and purchased a DMT 325 plate for lapping and a Norton 4K/8K stone. Additionally, I purchased an old straight off of Ebay to practice on. The razor is in decent condition but not sharp enough to cut or even catch on hair.

I did a couple aggressive pyramids as outlined in the wiki but afterward the razor did not seem significantly sharper as I still could not get it to even catch on my hair, let alone cut it.

After doing further research on SRP I came to the conclusion that the bevel probably needs to be set, which as I understand it means dropping down to a lower grit stone. Before I go ahead and purchase another stone, I was hoping to get the input of some more experienced honers out there to make sure that setting the bevel is what I really need to do.

Furthermore, I would also appreciate input on what 1k stone to buy. Specifically, should I stick with the Norton line or would it be alright to get a Naniwa 1K stone? Thanks!
07-22-2009, 01:53 PM
Slartibartfast

A good bevel is very important. If you do not have a good bevel, you will be on that 4k hone for a long time.

I will let some of the more experienced honers add to that though.

On which hone.....

Some people are going to say DMT 1200, others are going to say DMT are trash and get naniwa or shapton.

Freedom of Choice is a b*tch some times.....
07-22-2009, 02:13 PM
commiecat

I'm not one to offer advice on honing, but I have the same stones as you plus the Naniwa 1k and 12k. I set bevel on 1k, pyramid on the 4k/8k, and then polish with the 12k and CrO strop. Cleaning/lapping of the stones is done on my D8C.

I wouldn't even call myself an amateur yet, but this process has worked well on the three razors I've honed myself.

EDIT: I chose Naniwa because they're priced well and I've read many threads about them. I'd say that if a manufacturer is sold by SRD, they must be good. Shaptons are a bit pricey for me right now and I think the honemeisters suggest to purchase them to use as a whole system.
07-22-2009, 02:21 PM
Utopian

Quote:

Originally Posted by squash1978

Specifically, should I stick with the Norton line or would it be alright to get a Naniwa 1K stone? Thanks!

Yes!

Either one is just fine. I've used a Norton 1k for a long time. It works just fine. I like the Naniwa 1k better but either one will get the job done.
07-22-2009, 02:31 PM
gssixgun

Okie Dokie Pokie, lets do some counting....
2 Aggressive pyramids
35 laps each on the 4k x 2 =70 laps on the 4k

Two solutions to your problem
Easiest is buy a 1k stone
If you are going to continue to buy e-bayers and fix them up then complete the Norton set with the 220/1k
Any 1k will get you there though....

If this is going to be your only attempt at this, then do 20 laps on the DMT 325 and learn the circle technique that Lynn showed down in NC it is playing on the webcast right now....

By the way getting an e-bay razor to shave isn't as easy as some make it sound.. You are taking the luck of the draw, some of those old razors just need a quick touch to stone and leather and bam they are shaving ...Others require hours of work, it all depends on the razor not the honemiester
07-22-2009, 02:59 PM
nun2sharp

I think Glen pretty much covered it. But I would like to emphasize one of the things he has already said. Put some tape on the spine of your razor and do 20 laps on your DMT. If that wont set a bevel, I dont know what would. Hopefully you have already broken in the DMT.
07-22-2009, 02:59 PM
rayman

I have both the DMT 1200 and the Naniwa 1000. Both do a good job. The Naniwa takes a little longer but seems smoother, and the DMT seems to get the job done like NOW. It seems the key to setting the bevel is not to move off that stone, or diamond, until the full length of the blade is popping hair at its base. Don't move on until it does. Once you get that the rest is easy and your pyramid will work just fine.

Ray
07-22-2009, 03:09 PM
Slartibartfast

Glen..

Couldnt the dmt 325 be used in place of the 220 side of the Norton 220/1k and just get a naniwa 1k or dmt 1200?

btw, the dmt cuts faaasssstt if you get one and needs broken in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Okie Dokie Pokie, lets do some counting....
2 Aggressive pyramids
35 laps each on the 4k x 2 =70 laps on the 4k

Two solutions to your problem
Easiest is buy a 1k stone
If you are going to continue to buy e-bayers and fix them up then complete the Norton set with the 220/1k
Any 1k will get you there though....

If this is going to be your only attempt at this, then do 20 laps on the DMT 325 and learn the circle technique that Lynn showed down in NC it is playing on the webcast right now....

By the way getting an e-bay razor to shave isn't as easy as some make it sound.. You are taking the luck of the draw, some of those old razors just need a quick touch to stone and leather and bam they are shaving ...Others require hours of work, it all depends on the razor not the honemiester
07-22-2009, 03:11 PM
JimmyHAD

As Randy told me early on you can set a bevel on a 4k but it will take longer. OTOH, cleaning up the scratches left from a 1k won't be an issue. What I do is look at the edge under magnification and determine what I am up against to begin with. If the edge is reasonably clean I will go with circles and back and forth strokes on the 4k.

If it needs a substantial amount of work I will go to a DMT 1200 continuous plate or my Shapton 1k. Same procedure, circles and back and forth strokes with light pressure ( for setting the bevel). Once I feel I've got what I need from the circles I go to an x stroke ASAP. The angle of which will depend on the results of the marker test which is the first thing I do to see if I need to roll that x or approach with a 45 degree angle.

I would recommend the Naniwa 1k because Utopian likes it so well and I trust his judgment. I haven't got one myself. The DMT 1200 is a fast cutter but you have to watch it because you can go past where you want to go in a NY minute ... and that is a pair of seconds. :)
07-22-2009, 05:08 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Glen..

Couldnt the dmt 325 be used in place of the 220 side of the Norton 220/1k and just get a naniwa 1k or dmt 1200?

btw, the dmt cuts faaasssstt if you get one and needs broken in.

Yes I would think so, there are tons of options at the below 1k level including sandpaper.... I don't really think what you are doing down at the level could really be called honing myself, that is edge reconstruction :) once the edge is "reconstructed" to a < then you can begin actual honing at the 1k level with a nice, smooth, sharp, even bevel....
07-22-2009, 05:28 PM
VeeDubb65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Freedom of Choice is a b*tch some times.....

lol, aint that the truth.

The only thing I'd add to the excellent advice already here, is to not over think it.

From the first time I asked people what hones I should get, to when I finally bought my first set of hones was about 3 months. In the end, the deciding factor for which hones I got was a really good sale.

I don't think you can go wrong, as long as you stick with a "known" hone. Whether you change to the full norton set (only $115 at amazon), add a naniwa for bevel setting, a shapton, or even a DMT1200. All of them have been used to great success by a TON of people around here.
07-22-2009, 07:46 PM
squash1978

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Okie Dokie Pokie, lets do some counting....
Two solutions to your problem
Easiest is buy a 1k stone
If you are going to continue to buy e-bayers and fix them up then complete the Norton set with the 220/1k
Any 1k will get you there though....

If this is going to be your only attempt at this, then do 20 laps on the DMT 325 and learn the circle technique that Lynn showed down in NC it is playing on the webcast right now....

Thanks! I'm glad I have options. I don't envision that I will be honing a whole lot of razors so I think I will try again this time with 20 laps on the DMT 325 and see where that gets me. I'll let everyone know how this goes.

I still may get a 1K stone because I do like the idea of picking a few more Ebay razors to practice on.
07-23-2009, 02:05 PM
squash1978

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I think Glen pretty much covered it. But I would like to emphasize one of the things he has already said. Put some tape on the spine of your razor and do 20 laps on your DMT. If that wont set a bevel, I dont know what would. Hopefully you have already broken in the DMT.

So I started out with 20 laps on the DMT 325 last night without any noticeable results. I then proceeded to do another 20 laps on the DMT followed by an aggressive pyramid on the Norton and still nothing. I started to get a little frustrated and started doing circles first on the 4K side of the Norton and then on the DMT, which still did not seem to make a difference.

I then took a real good look at the bevel and noticed for the first time that the bevel was uneven, almost non-existent in the middle of one side of the blade. I assumed that meant the bevel still had not been correctly set so I continued doing laps on the DMT. I did maybe somewhere between 50 to 75 laps, periodically checking to see if the bevel was setting in the middle of the blade, which it was not.

About to give up in frustration, I decided to try taping the spine with 1 layer of black electrical tape and give it one more round of laps on the DMT. After I was done I ran the bottom 3rd of the blade across the top of my wrist, which immediately started catching and then cutting my hairs. The bevel still did not appear to be set in the middle of the blade so I did a few more laps on the DMT before calling it a night. The top and bottom 3rd of the blade now cut arm hair but it appears that the middle of the blade still has a ways to go.

When I removed the tape from the spine I noticed considerable wear on certain areas, especially around the heel and toe. I cannot say for sure how much was there before and how much was caused by me but I'm guessing that the hone wear was contributing to some of my difficulties.. Does anyone have additional tips or suggestions on how I should approach this blade (considering my basic equipment setup)? I definitely want to make sure I'm headed down the right path. I thinking it also would be wise for me to pick up a couple more old razors to practice one.

Also, I want to thank everyone for their input to my initial post!
07-23-2009, 04:31 PM
JimmyHAD

Squash, a DMT 325 is good for lapping your Nortons and maybe removing extreme chips but I wouldn't use it for setting a bevel. A DMT 1200 or a 1k waterstone would be a better option.

To me any inexperienced honer is best off taping the spine until you feel confident in your honing. When you feel you know what you are doing than make the tape or no tape decision.

First you should use the marker test to determine what type of stroke you need to make contact with the blade across the entire edge. Sounds like a rolling x of a 45 degree angle to the hone may be in order for your blade.
07-23-2009, 04:32 PM
gssixgun

Remember that statement up above where I said luck of the draw????

The good news is when you get this one sorted out I promise you will get a good shave and a huge sense of accomplishment...

Leave the one layer of tape on and keep it on the 325 until you get a bevel from heel to toe don't switch until the bevel is sharp don't cheat you will not catch back up later.... as the tape wears out keep replacing it. and stay with 1 layer through out the honing process take the tape off before you get on the strops...
07-23-2009, 04:43 PM
Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes I would think so, there are tons of options at the below 1k level including sandpaper.... I don't really think what you are doing down at the level could really be called honing myself, that is edge reconstruction :) once the edge is "reconstructed" to a < then you can begin actual honing at the 1k level with a nice, smooth, sharp, even bevel....

No Sandpaper Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banghead:

:roflmao

Lynn
07-23-2009, 05:35 PM
squash1978

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Remember that statement up above where I said luck of the draw????

The good news is when you get this one sorted out I promise you will get a good shave and a huge sense of accomplishment...

Leave the one layer of tape on and keep it on the 325 until you get a bevel from heel to toe don't switch until the bevel is sharp don't cheat you will not catch back up later.... as the tape wears out keep replacing it. and stay with 1 layer through out the honing process take the tape off before you get on the strops...

Yup, you were right :)

Good to know that I'm on the right track, I'll keep everyone posted on my progress!
07-23-2009, 06:13 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

No Sandpaper Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banghead:

:roflmao

Lynn

LMAO Oh yeah Lynn "Loves" to re-bevel sandpapered razor edges honest he loves them :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: