Nakayama misuse?

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08-02-2009, 06:01 AM
JimR

Nakayama misuse?

So last night I did an experiment. I had two razors in similar condition--once great shavers, with edges that deteriorated and started pulling beyond acceptable tolerances.

I had previously rehoned them with the pyramids, and there was improvement but still not to the point where I wanted to use them every day. The only addition I made was the Japanese Natural that I got from my barber.

So last night, I rehoned them again. I went back to the 2K to smooth the edge out, then using magnification I took them both through the same routine--move up to the next level until the previous hone's scratch pattern was gone. I did this with 4K, 8K, and then 10K lapping film.

However, at this point I diverged the pattern--with one razor, I finished on CrOx and leather.
The other, I went to my Nakayama with slurry (as advised by my barber) in alternating 5 set patterns of circular and x strokes, up to 20 laps. Under magnification, there was no change, and the slurry did not change color at all, so I honestly don't know if there was anything going on. Then I finished that one on the CrOx and leather.

The shave test this morning? The First razor, with NO Japanese Natural, was FANTASTIC. The best edge I've ever achieved.

The second razor, however, was still pully and on nearly as sharp as I would like. So I figure I MUST be doing something wrong...any ideas?

I figure the stone itself is a good one, as my barber used it for years to maintain his razors, of which I have 7, and the edges are all lovely...could the hone be glazed? Should I lap it?

BTW--Both razors are good, clean steel, sizes and grinds are different though.
08-02-2009, 10:36 AM
CarrieM

If you made a slurry on it you would have broken up any glaze I would think, I know that using slurry can often round the edge of the blade slightly so that may have been the problem. I could of course also be way off base :)

Just my semi-educated guess
08-02-2009, 11:59 AM
JimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarrieM

If you made a slurry on it you would have broken up any glaze I would think, I know that using slurry can often round the edge of the blade slightly so that may have been the problem. I could of course also be way off base :)

Just my semi-educated guess

Yeah, I remember talk of slurry being bad in the Coticule threads, you're probably right. I'll try some tinkering and see if the slurry is the culprit. Thanks for your help, semi-educated though it might be!
08-02-2009, 02:10 PM
hi_bud_gl

Sorry to say i think problem with your honing. you jump to nakayama too early.
i never used lapping film and cannot say anything about it. what type hone was your 8 k name of it please. as i know you are in japan.if slurry didn't change colors that means nakayama hasn't done anything. may be too light pressure without getting proper edge for that stone. Can you let us know name of your stones? then we could help better
08-02-2009, 02:20 PM
JimR

Thanks Old_School, I figured that would be the solution--just play around with it till I figure it out. Maybe next weekend I can catch my barber at a quiet time and try to talk him into a honing lesson.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Sorry to say i think problem with your honing. you jump to nakayama too early.
i never used lapping film and cannot say anything about it. what type hone was your 8 k name of it please. as i know you are in japan.if slurry didn't change colors that means nakayama hasn't done anything. may be too light pressure without getting proper edge for that stone. Can you let us know name of your stones? then we could help better

Fair enough, thanks Sham. I used a Naniwa Super 2k, a King 4K and a Naniwa Super 8K. The lapping film is from a Japanese company called Lapika. It's rated at 10K, 0.3 micron. I only gave it ten passes on the film, and it was looking very VERY smooth under 200x magnification. there were still a few lines, but form the Nakayama it just looked the same. I was under the impression that a Japanese natural should leave a haze...
08-02-2009, 02:35 PM
hi_bud_gl

i think o.3 is too fine. You basically done untill naniwa 8k that is it then you went to nakayama.
i think problem is in here. if you can go untill 12 and then go to nakayama you should be fine or after 8k you will need to do with slurry a lot strokes(100 0r more then that) on nakayama to see the result.Try it and let us know what happens.
i should say 200x is too much too you will not see nothing except flat line and this will misguide you. if you can go down 100x or 60x that will help too.
hope this helps and we hear from you a good news.
08-02-2009, 04:21 PM
kevint

Interesting mystery. OS' process sounds like the way to do it.

I didn't quite follow your Nakayama method, how many total strokes? It's not a very long stone though is it?

What did you make the slurry with? It is probably a good idea to check with your barber, if nothing else, to see what he means. Thick or thin, or almost none.

.3 micron is 10,000 grit? Above 30k I thought.

I can't really describe the brightness, it does change after stropping on leather

things are probably all better now?
08-02-2009, 11:47 PM
JimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevint

Interesting mystery. OS' process sounds like the way to do it.

I didn't quite follow your Nakayama method, how many total strokes? It's not a very long stone though is it?

What did you make the slurry with? It is probably a good idea to check with your barber, if nothing else, to see what he means. Thick or thin, or almost none.

.3 micron is 10,000 grit? Above 30k I thought.

I can't really describe the brightness, it does change after stropping on leather

things are probably all better now?

For the slurry, I used the Nagura that my barber gave me. When he gave it to me, he showed me a couple of strokes and for that he just rubbed the nagura a bout 10 times quickly over the stone with water. The slurry really is hardly visible--it shows as a cloudiness in the water when you hone.

I used a mix of circular (back and forth) strokes and x strokes, 5 of each. for about 20 strokes (it might actually have been thirty, come to think of it). Yes, they are very short--only about 13.5cm.

So here's the weird part, as I see it. I had the razors on the same honing pattern up to the Nakayama. One razor I finished on the Nakayama, as I said, and it was noticeably duller than the other. So if the Nakayama wasn't doing anything, then why was the razor dull?

Anyway, here's my next step. I rehoned the dull razor (I noticed a couple of microchips on closer inspection, so I took it all the way down to 1k) and finished WITHOUT the Nakayama. I shaved with it this morning and it was a pretty good edge. So my plan is, I am going to take both of these razors and give them 50 laps on the Nakayama--one with slurry and one without--and see how it goes.