Need Bevel Tip

I was setting the bevel on a vintage Kropp last nite. To start, I inked the edge and gave a few test swipes on the Norton 1k to see what I was dealing with. One side of the blade came out quite clean and the other left a good size section, about 25% of the blade length, in the center.
I honed on the 1K for a while and could see I wasn't going to get results on that grit for at least an eon so I flipped over to the 330 grit side and started in. It was kinda late and the Tigers were on TV so I stopped after about 40 minutes. I was hardly any closer than when I began to getting to the middle. I did circles, X's, repetitions, back and forth, etc. trying to get different scratch patterns and remove material.
This blade has significant hone wear on the spine. Do I suck it up and just keep grinding away til I get there and also should I do equal amounts to the other side? I HADn't better ask this question but I will. Are the DMT's significantly faster?

Marc

Are you dealing with a wedge or hollow, is the blade warped/bent?

DMT 1200 is significantly faster for cutting a bevel than a Norton 1k IME. That is a good thing if you keep your eye on the progress. Sometimes it can be too much of a good thing if you don't.

Rather then regrind the razor on the 1k I have taken a blade where the one side has a concave section and done the x pattern with attention to the edge of the hone. If you had a narrower hone that can be easier but it can be done with a 3" wide Norton. The amount of material you would have to remove from the point and heel to flatten the profile would be sort of drastic if I am accurately envisioning what you are describing.

Put some more marker on that side and see if you can figure the stroke that addresses the problem area. Just follow the bevel with the x and keep an eye on getting that area as it gets to the edge/corner of the hone during the x. That is all I know to do with it. Other folks will be along with their suggestions so hang in there. :gl:

I would love to see some pics of both sides of this blade to see what you are up against. Kropp razors are generally not hard steel type razors and come around pretty easily unless totally trashed and I only say this based on the amount of time you describe working on it. Full hollow?

Thanks,

Lynn

As to the blade, it's full hollow, or very close to it. A thin blade and 6/8ths wide. Don't have access to pictures right now but if I do X patterns I can swipe the ink off the middle, barely.

You are doing something definitely wrong. 330 grit stone for 40 minutes that blade should have nothing left on it.
All what i am saying is kinda guessing(without seen razor etc)
at first make your hone flat.
Second please don't work on any razor's below 1k grit hone without a big chip.
third less pressure
Lastly Remember Magic word lynn said less is more while you hone?
now you can go start all over and see what happens. Gl

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Originally Posted by Doop

As to the blade, it's full hollow, or very close to it. A thin blade and 6/8ths wide. Don't have access to pictures right now but if I do X patterns I can swipe the ink off the middle, barely.

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In a perfect world the blade would be straight with no warp or anomalies and you could run it right across a 3" hone and have an equal bevel on either side for the length of the blade. Unfortunately it ain't a perfect world so you have to settle for the best you can get.:)

That is why the X pattern is the best way to deal with razors like yours. The bevel is going to be narrower on that side for that portion of the blade but if you can get it sharp that is all that matters IMO.

I'll see if the thing will finish off on the Nortons with the X pattern, I typically use the X pattern anyway, if the Norton's turn out to be too wide, I'll move to some of my narrower natural stones. I have a Boker Unrivaled that is similar in that one side just rides so perfect on one side and the other side requires that I slightly roll the edge in the stoke.

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Originally Posted by Doop

I'll see if the thing will finish off on the Nortons with the X pattern, I typically use the X pattern anyway, if the Norton's turn out to be too wide, I'll move to some of my narrower natural stones. I have a Boker Unrivaled that is similar in that one side just rides so perfect on one side and the other side requires that I slightly roll the edge in the stoke.

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Sounds like you know what you're doing. I use the X pattern for everything. I figured if it is what Lynn recommends it has to be the way to go and IME it is the best approach for any razor.

I'm just setting bevel on kropp and have a similar problem except i have a bevel formed but under loop i have very fine line on the cutting edge that is not being removed so does'nt feel sharp in that section i have honed for at least another 100 laps and it aint disapearing tryed rolling x and no joy i never come across this my self 75 percent of blade is ready to move on but i carn't untill the blade is sharp in this area do i carry on honing untill it makes contact i've used my dmt1200 and still the same weird.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doop

I was setting the bevel on a vintage Kropp last nite. To start, I inked the edge and gave a few test swipes on the Norton 1k to see what I was dealing with. One side of the blade came out quite clean and the other left a good size section, about 25% of the blade length, in the center.

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Based on that information, I'd guess that you're dealing with a warped, or uneven ground blade. When laying on the problem side, the middle part of the edge is probably not touching the hone. If it's a warp, the bevel at the middle part will be wider on the opposite side.
I presume the bend is pretty outspoken, based on the time you honed without success on the coarse hone. There are two possible solutions to deal with such a flaw.

1. As you already figured, use narrow hones. They are capable of following the bended curve of the blade. You can use the narrow side of many hones. Even if they are combination hones (treat as the coarsest hone of the combination). Make sure you lap the surface you're using and round the corners a bit.

2. Introduce a smiling curve into the edge. With the middle part being slightly ahead of the tip and toe, it has far better chance of making good contact with the hone. You need to master a good rolling X for this. Of both options, this is the most difficult. Personally, I usually first introduce the smile "breadknifingly" (with a very slight rocking motion), and then rely on X-strokes on a coarse hone (DMT-C) to establish a nice bevel on the now smiling edge.

Best regards,
Bart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doop

I was setting the bevel on a vintage Kropp last nite. To start, I inked the edge and gave a few test swipes on the Norton 1k to see what I was dealing with. One side of the blade came out quite clean and the other left a good size section, about 25% of the blade length, in the center.

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= Warped blade. Nothing really to do about it, except trying to use a thinner hone to set a proper bevel in the trouble area.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doop

I honed on the 1K for a while and could see I wasn't going to get results on that grit for at least an eon so I flipped over to the 330 grit side and started in. It was kinda late and the Tigers were on TV so I stopped after about 40 minutes.

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OMG, stop! 1 minute on a 330 grit is murdering the edge let alone 40.
I'm sure your 1k stone is fine otherwise it wouldn't pass the magic marker test (at least on one of the sides).