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Hi,
Does the honing stroke speed have much effect on the resulting edge? I'm using a coticule and hone pretty darn slow....
All other things being equal, would the results on the edge from 50 slow strokes equal that of 50 fast strokes? Or is there some log function relating to speed on cutting abilty lurking somewhere...
-Chief
I honestly don't think the speed of your honing stroke matters. I can't prove it, but I doubt that 50 fast strokes vs. 50 slow strokes would have different results. The videos that you see of experienced honers honing very quickly (Bart comes to mind :)) are only fast because they are comfortable going at that speed. I think technique is far more important than speed (much like stropping) and should focus more on proper technique (i.e. even pressure, keeping the blade flat, etc.). You're only more likely to blow the technique the faster you go. I saw just take your time, and speed will come naturally when you get more comfortable.
Even if a faster stroke does give better results when done properly, I say it's still better to do a few more quality strokes than less fast strokes where the technique can be lacking.
I try for smooth and consistent. I think that each person has to find the speed that is comfortable for them. Just IMHO.
I've thought about it before. It's easy to imagine a straight stroke; lineal inch is lineal inch- like increasing the speed on a belt sander. the faster you go the more you sand. When you are moving diagonally? my brain shuts off I can see it as the same(equally effective fast or slow) and not the same(there must be an ideal speed that allows each point along the continuum of the edge sufficient time and distance along the stone)
Honing is much like stropping, in that technique is the priority. If speed follows, that's fine, but it's more important to get the stroke right each time. A bad one can set you back a few laps.
The difference over stropping is that a quick lap over the hone will have the same effect as a slow one.
I would say yes, speed plays a part in it. It would depend on the tensile strength of the metal and the hardness. Do some razors hone faster than others? I don't think this is something you should be concerned with though. Also, you probably want to hone until the blades says it's done or ready for the next hone and not base your honing on the number of strokes. Stroke counts can be used for a reference but in the end it's the edge that says when to more on.
Good luck.
As everyone else said, I believe accuracy must comes first.
I do believe that if you want to make less-than-weight-of-the-blade strokes near the end of (each hone in) a progression, in order to get the best possible results, then you need to add some swiftness to your strokes. I believe that with a perfected stroke it is possible to get as much edge definition off an 8K hone than with a less than perfect stroke off a 12K hone. (grit rates purely for the sake of example)
Those who have read Seraphim's excellent post a few days ago have seen an illustration of this notion: http://straightrazorpalace.com/basic...r-example.html
The speed of my strokes (which I believe inspired this thread) came naturally with experience. But I think, as with stropping, it makes a difference to adopt a good method of turning the razor between thumb and index finger, with minimal or no wrist movement. I'm not saying a good stroke is not possible without it, I just think that my stroke naturally started to accelerate, because my method of turning a razor easily allows for it.
I always perform a number of slow strokes before I speed up. During those slow strokes I watch the wave of fluid in front of the edge and try to optimize the stroke. (aiming as much as possible for the fluid to run up the edge) Once I feel the motion is being locked in muscle memory, I can confidently speed up, but I regularly slow down to recheck.
I would regret if anyone was intimidated by the speed of my honing strokes in the videos I have shared. With some practice, anyone who can strop with speed, can also hone with speed. But you can get perfect results without much speed on either.
Best regards,
Bart.
Not to beat a dead horse here but like most guys said the speed isn't important its the accuracy. Just find a speed that's right for you.
I was hoping this was the case... else I'm sure I'd shear off a few fingers trying replicate some of these honing videos...
:)
-Chief
Watching Bart hone is like watching Danny MacAskill ride a bicycle. It looks easy but don't try it unless you've got the chops. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BHChieftain
YouTube - Inspired Bicycles Danny MacAskill
I have to say speed does matter.
when you start set bevel 1k,4k--until 8k process doesn't matter which speed and direction etc.
after that you need to slow down tremendously.
You last strokes on final finishing stones should be dead slow. you have to give time to blade spend on the hone.
Gl
Sham, i respect your abilities & knowledge tremendously, but how does extra time on the hone work? I'd have thought that pressure, or lack of, & distance covered are the governing factors?Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
Sometimes I notice apparent contradictions in one fellow's honing recommendations as opposed to another. I think each of us finds a variation on a theme that works for us. One guy may be more comfortable with a faster stroke and get better results while for another slowing down does the trick.
It is similar in tattooing and probably other manual pursuits. My boss's hand moves far faster than mine running an outliner machine over the skin but we each end up with a smooth flowing line.
More than one tattooer watching me outline has said that if they tried to move at the speed my hand was moving their hand would shake while for me it is very comfortable and steady. Different strokes for different folks.
I agree what you are saying about pressure .distance etc .Quote:
Originally Posted by ben.mid
Let me explain what i said in my above message.
when you start to hone usually we start 1k(please lets use common variation. i understand someone can start on 325 grit etc)
in this level your purpose is only set the bevel. remove any chips uneven bevel etc.
edge is thick as can be. you can do any speed any motion you like. More experienced person will do forfard backword motion in faster speed just job get done faster ( you get more experience +laziness too).Any mistake in this level is almost not mistake.
after you get to 8 k level honing edge changes.
changes are edge gets more finer.
Any mistake will cost you more(have to go 1 k level and it is not a good feeling)
in this level moving blade with faster motion will give person more trouble to put same amount pressure in all way the blade +remember pressure should come to =0.Now it is really hard to put zero pressure with fast movement by slowing down you can rich that zero level pressure.
in last part of honing you have to go your slowest speed and make sure just blades weight plays role. This stage should be escher etc.
in this case i have calculated if you use on 8 inch escher hone 8 second ,20 full strokes you will get the best results.
Please note when you go to An Escher your blade should be ready for final touch if you jump to it too early 100 laps will not give the edge Escher suppose to do.
I should add this. Some people can hone slower or faster or just sleep behind the stone. Everyone has their way and this is my way . i do think it works for me so far . Never had problems with any blade i have honed.
Above doesn't mean every single person must to this. if you have time and you know what are you doing go head try ,let me know did it work for you or not. etc.
GL