The Two Worst Honing Videos EVAR!

Well, I thought I'd try to make a video of myself honing a Japanese razor using the method my barber taught me. It's...laughable. But the basic idea is ok.

The first video is included for pure comedy value. Things get good around the 40 second mark.

The second video is a little more successful.

I don't pretend to be anywhere near good at this, but I was able to kick the edge up in keenness a notch or two...it wasn't bad to begin with, just a little oxidated and rough.

Enjoy, and poke all the fun you will.
YouTube - Screwing up a honing video!

YouTube - Honing a Japanese Razor (2nd try)

From the looks of it this is pretty much identical to a single beveljapanese knife.
the way to sharpen those is 45 deg angle with respect to the edge of the stone, dead flat on the bevel.
In my experience, then you sharpen perpendicular to the stone its easier roll on the shinogi line instead of being flat on the stone.
I am not sure if this applies to the Japanese razors, but I doubt the technique is so much different.

Neat!

A few questions:

1) assuming that Japan has/had traditional barbers who would use one of these, how often might they sharpen this way? Would they strop in between, or just touch up on one of those periodically?

2) is there any significant difference in the grind or the steel that affects how long these keep an edge? (i.e. longer or shorter than Western razors)

3) why isn't the back-and-forth honing style applicable to Western razors? I've used it before (and circles as well), but only at the early stages - never exclusively.

Thanks Jim.

Like other techniques, I realize this is an art form. Is there a way to get to a certain number of honing strokes on the flat side and a certain or approximate number of strokes on the other side? I know the numbers will be approximates. The other thing is that I am confused by whether you are just back stroking or stropping stroking on the non flat side? I understand like a 10:1 ratio but just checking to see if something like that would apply.

Great effort here.

Lynn

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Originally Posted by northpaw

Neat!

A few questions:

1) assuming that Japan has/had traditional barbers who would use one of these, how often might they sharpen this way? Would they strop in between, or just touch up on one of those periodically?

There are still some...I'm guessing you didn't see my "honing lesson from my barber" thread? I'm honestly not sure about the frequency, but there's a story Iwasaki tells about a barber who used one of his dad's razors (I think) that said he shaved 1,032 customers before he had to rehone it.

I do know they strop between.

2) is there any significant difference in the grind or the steel that affects how long these keep an edge? (i.e. longer or shorter than Western razors)
Who knows. OLD_SCHOOL maybe...:shrug:

3) why isn't the back-and-forth honing style applicable to Western razors? I've used it before (and circles as well), but only at the early stages - never exclusively.
Good question!

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Thanks Jim.

Like other techniques, I realize this is an art form. Is there a way to get to a certain number of honing strokes on the flat side and a certain or approximate number of strokes on the other side? I know the numbers will be approximates. The other thing is that I am confused by whether you are just back stroking or stropping stroking on the non flat side? I understand like a 10:1 ratio but just checking to see if something like that would apply.

Great effort here.

Lynn

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Thanks a lot Lynn, that of course means a lot from you!
The ratio, according to my barber (the legendary Kawaguchi-sensei), is ten to one--ten passes back and forth flat side down, with one spine-leading stroke on the curved/stamped sidel; of course, he did say "about ten". That could be a result of the Japanese tendency towards "soft" answers, or it might not actually matter that much. I'm planning to visit for another lesson before too long, so I'll ask.

My uncle by marriage is also a barber, but not nearly as traditional, and he said in barber school he was taught not to hone the back at all, but just to strop it to remove the burr.

I have to show my ignorance here--what exactly is the difference between "back stroking" and "stropping stroking"? You do apply the same amount of pressure on the single stamped-side pass as the other. As I understood, it's more of a smoothing technique--maybe just in case a bit of a burr forms? I know some honers of Japanese razors actually try to raise a burr...

I tweaked the numbers a little on this demonstration because my hone is less than half the length of the one he was using...which will one day be mine!!!

thank you for video it is great learning tool for us.
As Lynn mention you are doing opposite side only once and back honing? it is interesting.

Thanks Jim for the demonstration. I haven't gotten into the Japanese razors ..... yet. I have been tempted but I love the western style and well sooner or later I'll probably dip my foot in the water and when I do your vid will come in handy.

My only criticism is that you, like Sham, make a video with a pair of hands and no face to put with it. You've seen the vids where there is at least one shot of the honers features so we can put a face with the name. :)

Not bad at all! You're too modest!

What's the slurry stone? A Nagura or a Nakayama?

Jim - could you post pictures of both finished sides of the blade? Thanks!

Good show. The sound on the omote was a light pressure sound, but the stone was cutting nicely. cool stone.

Now it looked like you had a bit of struggling with the nagura while showing us a large, flat, white face> why not use that part on the stone?

my new beef: with all the talk of conserving material; is not rotating the stone to use the entire surface evenly. So start doing that.:rant::)

People Jim explained the terminology in the video. Using it makes things clear. Learn, Love it and use it please.:borg:

I think this video might be a worse honing video. It shows the brick method of razor honing. I wouldn't recommend this for a Japanese style razor.
(I know, its a joke, but its fun to watch)
YouTube - Straight Razor Honing on a Brick (This is a joke)

^^^^^^ :roflmao:roflmao:roflmao the secret zeepk honing technique finally revealed!



also thank you Jim the videos were great and you the first person who's voice sounded like I thought it would.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thanks Jim for the demonstration. I haven't gotten into the Japanese razors ..... yet. I have been tempted but I love the western style and well sooner or later I'll probably dip my foot in the water and when I do your vid will come in handy.

My only criticism is that you, like Sham, make a video with a pair of hands and no face to put with it. You've seen the vids where there is at least one shot of the honers features so we can put a face with the name. :)

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Nah, I can't afford a new camera, spent all my money on strops!

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Originally Posted by Kees

Not bad at all! You're too modest!

What's the slurry stone? A Nagura or a Nakayama?

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Ermmmm...ummmm...a... Nagura? Dunno, my barber gave it to me with the hone, but he was almost reluctant to do it. He said it was harder to get than the stone itself...Which surprised me!

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Originally Posted by jendeindustries

Jim - could you post pictures of both finished sides of the blade? Thanks!

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I'll do so, but I'm not sure if I can get a good one of the polished "haze".

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Originally Posted by kevint

Good show. The sound on the omote was a light pressure sound, but the stone was cutting nicely. cool stone.

Now it looked like you had a bit of struggling with the nagura while showing us a large, flat, white face> why not use that part on the stone?

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I do use both sides, but I with either one I have to really dig in because this stone and this nagura are HARD. You have to use a lot of pressure to get the kind of slurry I was shown--he actually took a pair of scissors and GOUGED the nagura, so it would slurry up better.

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Originally Posted by kevint

my new beef: with all the talk of conserving material; is not rotating the stone to use the entire surface evenly. So start doing that.:rant::)

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Sorry sir! Should I do that between each round of ten?

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Originally Posted by kevint

People Jim explained the terminology in the video. Using it makes things clear. Learn, Love it and use it please.:borg:

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I hope it helped a little, at least, with some of the terminology. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I did pay attention and I think the basics are there.

Love it Jim, I thought it was a cool video. Now I just need to get a japanese straight, natural hone and a 90k strop one of these days:tameshigiri:...

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Originally Posted by Del1r1um

Love it Jim, I thought it was a cool video. Now I just need to get a japanese straight, natural hone and a 90k strop one of these days:tameshigiri:...

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For great Justice!!!! :beer2:

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Originally Posted by JimR

Nah, I can't afford a new camera, spent all my money on strops!

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Yeah, and you spent all my money on strops too.....:roflmao

:beer1:

Lynn

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Originally Posted by JimR

I do use both sides, but I with either one I have to really dig in because this stone and this nagura are HARD. You have to use a lot of pressure to get the kind of slurry I was shown--he actually took a pair of scissors and GOUGED the nagura, so it would slurry up better.


Sorry sir! Should I do that between each round of ten?

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I don't really like to have rules about such things. As long as we don't forget, or forget to check later; the work, the tools, working with the tools, experience will guide us.

The stones can be harder or softer, long and narrow or short- nearly square. Doing it right is simply doing it and getting the intended result.


Alex Gilmore was telling me about kaolin, the mineral from which porcelain is made. It is white and very hard. The slurry from it seems not to do any damage to fine edges.

I'll be tuning in to see what you learn about stropping practices.

I'm going to try Nathan's brick / milk slurry method for about two weeks on the same razor. This will give my armhairs time to grow back, get a manicure and I will probably end up with the first 1/8 wedge in history.

Jerry
~~~

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Originally Posted by kevint

I don't really like to have rules about such things. As long as we don't forget, or forget to check later; the work, the tools, working with the tools, experience will guide us.

The stones can be harder or softer, long and narrow or short- nearly square. Doing it right is simply doing it and getting the intended result.


Alex Gilmore was telling me about kaolin, the mineral from which porcelain is made. It is white and very hard. The slurry from it seems not to do any damage to fine edges.

I'll be tuning in to see what you learn about stropping practices.

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Yeah, the thing I have to remember about what my barber teaches me is, Japanese culture can be very, very picky about tools and rules.

A hone that is labeled for straight razors, and NOT kamisori, is not to be used for kamisori--end of story. Even if the only difference is size or shape...it's a straight razor hone, not a kamisori hone. (And yes, before you ask, this hone was sold as such. I have seen a couple of other hones that are specifically labeled as straight razor hones, and they have all been of a similar size/shape...I don't know why).

I of course agree, do what works. It just takes so long to figure that out...sometimes I get impatient and want the comfort of a set rule.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

Yeah, and you spent all my money on strops too.....:roflmao

:beer1:

Lynn

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Hey now! Don't blame me, all I did was show the darned thing! I haven't even talked about how amazing the stropping feel is, how the rough horsehide doesn't have draw, it has a loving embrace on the blade.

I love watching honing videos, and I love seeing Japanese naturals. Your video combined both. :D I have no experience honing Japanese straights, but thanks for the video, it was entertaining.

What are the dimensions on your Nakayama? (It's a Nakayama isn't it?)

I have EXACTLY the same hone to this. On advice I had only been using it as a finishing stone so far. It looks like a slurry would give much better results. Thank you very much! :tu

awesome job Jim!

BTW
How far along have you gotten on the 19 page honing translation? ;)

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Originally Posted by JimR

For great Justice!!!! :beer2:

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Not only do I know your reference, but I can clearly hear the anime "Element Hunters" playing in the background.

You sir, are a geek!

now, just ignore the fact that I could tell just by the theme music what you were watching...
Gods bless us all, every one!
:borg:

nice video, anyone try lapping film?

......Yes.

A quick search in the Advanced Search (Upper Right Corner) will reveal several hundred post on Lapping Film.

Yes, it work well in capable hands.

Would sure be nice to meet and see someone do it in person

If you do an advanced search in the Community tab at the top of the page, you may be able to find someone nearby (relatively). Also, you can watch for meet-ups in your area.