Is there a test for "Honemeister"?

I've been reading quite a few of these posts and everyone keeps saying things like "True Honemeister". Is there a way that we can get a system going so people can be assured that when they send a razor out to be honed by someone advertising in the classifieds here, that they can be assured they will get a quality job done? I have a ad in the classified's here and I would like to be checked out by anyone to see if I hone good. If I don't I will definitely pull my ad from here if I don't meet people's expectations. If we set up some sort of quality control so no one will get burned, then it could help answer any question's someone might have when they want to have a razor honed by someone from here. I hope I don't upset anyone by asking this! It's just a thought that's been running through my head reading alot of these post's.

The only test is the result and rep i should imagine i class my honing as very good i do all my own honing and i also have honed for other people i don't charge as i enjoy honing as an hobby but the guys on the classifieds do have good write ups but still i don't think you can please every one and that is down to client and there experiance in using a straight razor so i think honemeisters have a tough job.

The way things work, have worked, and don't work...

The truth of the matter is there is no test other then the public opinion one...

Way back in the old days :) if you wanted to establish yourself, you just jumped right in, Joe Chandler actually explained it to me... About doing some work for free, actually just helping out when needed.. So that's what I did, I saw a newb struggling, I would just jump in and offer.. Doc had a few razors for the troops going out, I offered, someone had their great grandfathers razor to fix up, I offered, pretty soon people were asking me to do more and more, and they offered $$$, that was the old way and it still works...

What happened next was the newer way, people started posting "Free Honing Offers" at first we thought this was a good thing, but quickly realized that this actually was not so good, so we stopped those offers on the forum...As some people took advantage of it and basically were running a supermarket promotion out of it, basically buy one get one free... this was just not in the true spirit of the forum...

You can definitely just hang your shingle out in the classifieds, but if people don't know of you, and haven't heard of your skills then business will be slow starting...
Still the best way of getting established is "JUST HELP" if you read about some poor newb stuck in the hone zone, just offer to help. If yer a restorer just offer to help out in the monthly giveaways...
There are tons of people on the forum that just need help...
I still do this, so does Lynn, and Max, and we all are swamped with work...
Remember what the forum is really about, and it all just comes together...
we are really here just to help each other out.... :soapbox:

The more people you help, the more people will know your name, and the ball starts rolling along...

Glen hit the nail right on the head with his description of the actual situation on SRP. Being German, the English language use of Meister still makes me cringe, though:

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Meister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The word Meister originally means "master" in German (as in master craftsman or as an honorific title such as Meister Eckhart; akin to maestro).

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Taking this into context, have a look at the explanation of the German master craftsman:

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Master craftsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The master craftsman is the highest professional qualification in crafts and is a state-approved grade. The education includes theoretical and practical training in the craft and also business and legal training, and includes the qualification to be allowed to train apprentices as well. The status of master craftsman is regulated in the German Gesetz zur Ordnung des Handwerks, HandwO (Law of crafts).

The requirements to become a master craftsman are usually an education in the crafts in which the examination should be taken (a successfully completed apprenticeship and examination, called Gesellenprüfung) and experience of at least 3 years as a journeyman (Geselle). Only then training courses for the Meisterprüfung ("master's examination") can be followed. The duration of the courses depends on the craft and can take some years. The examination includes theoretical, practical and oral parts and takes some days (depending on the craft). In most crafts the creation of a masterpiece is still part of the examination.

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So while I appreciate the English language use of this German loanword, it still sounds horribly wrong to me. Just as an aside, the pronunciation is also different, it's \ˈmaɪs-tɐ\, not \ˈmīs-tər\ ;)

Being a long time student of German, I know just what you mean. It just sounds wrong somehow. On the other hand, regardless of formal training, these guys really are masters of their craft.

Robin,

Your post is exactly why I refer to most guys who do honing as "honesters". Of course, this wouldn't apply to guys like Lynn and Glen and others who have literally honed thousands and thousands of razors with many happy customs. I think that the term honemeister is fitting for those gentlemen.

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

Robin,

Your post is exactly why I refer to most guys who do honing as "honesters". Of course, this wouldn't apply to guys like Lynn and Glen and others who have literally honed thousands and thousands of razors with many happy customs. I think that the term honemeister is fitting for those gentlemen.

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yea, its like the sign outside McDonalds. Billions served. Really practice makes perfect and skill won't hurt either.

I take my hat off to the guys that want to hone for other people. I buy enough razors to get plenty of practice and I keep it a hobby. I have honed for a couple of people for free as a favor but I don't want to make a hobby a semi profession.

Before long it wouldn't be enjoyable to me if there was that kind of pressure on me. Deadlines and such. Also, from what I've experienced with honing it is a good thing that the honemiesters don't charge by the hour. :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

What happened next was the newer way, people started posting "Free Honing Offers" at first we thought this was a good thing, but quickly realized that this actually was not so good, so we stopped those offers on the forum...As some people took advantage of it and basically were running a supermarket promotion out of it, basically buy one get one free... this was just not in the true spirit of the forum...

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I haven't had time to be on this forum lately, but I just came on today to take a quick look around, found this thread, and felt obliged to respond.

I was probably the first person to do what was called a buy one get one free offer. It was not, as I was told, "marketing." I deliberately did not piggyback my free honing offer with any listing in the classifieds. I had no intention of charging for any honing, especially since I considered that the free honing was helping me gain more honing experience. The only reason I charged for some razors was because I was getting barraged with people asking me to hone 3 or more (up to 12) razors for them for free. I felt it was more important to hone one razor for as many people as possible so most of the time I thought it best to limit it to one per person. For some people who were on hard times, or for some other reasons, I still went ahead and honed more than one for free. For some people, I did major restorations for free. I spent 12 hours grinding and hand sanding one blade and got paid nothing. That's because I didn't ask for anything. I also did not restrict the condition of the blades that came to me. I honed many that had chips that extended way beyond the bevel, that is, if there even was a bevel. I was willing to hone just about anything, no matter the condition. I thought it was reasonable though to charge for occasional extra razors.

Whenever I received a honing inquiry about multiple razors, I told them the same thing--"I'm limiting the free honing to one per person. If you want more honed than that, I'll charge the standard $15 per razor. Whether you want just the free honing, or if you want to pay for additional razors, either way is fine with me." Most of the time I got no response back after sending that message.

During my free honing period, I honed 117 razors. I was paid a total of $170 for those honings, so it was hardly a successful marketing campaign. When I have the time, I will be mailing refunds to each person who paid me for honing during my free honing offer. I will do this to maintain "the true spirit of the forum."

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Originally Posted by Utopian

During my free honing period, I honed 117 razors. I was paid a total of $170 for those honings, so it was hardly a successful marketing campaign. When I have the time, I will be mailing refunds to each person who paid me for honing during my free honing offer. I will do this to maintain "the true spirit of the forum."

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I don't see $170 for 117 razors as making any profit and do not feel you should refund the money just to 'keep the spirit of the forum", as noble an act it is.. I also feel that all others reading this post should comment on this act as your feelings dictate.

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Originally Posted by Joed

I don't see $170 for 117 razors as making any profit and do not feel you should refund the money just to 'keep the spirit of the forum", as noble an act it is.. I also feel that all others reading this post should comment on this act as your feelings dictate.

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+1 on this. IMHO I think you have enough to worry about ATM. If someone feels slighted (or whatever word fits) they can ask for a refund.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Whenever I received a honing inquiry about multiple razors, I told them the same thing--"I'm limiting the free honing to one per person. If you want more honed than that, I'll charge the standard $15 per razor. Whether you want just the free honing, or if you want to pay for additional razors, either way is fine with me." Most of the time I got no response back after sending that message.

During my free honing period, I honed 117 razors. I was paid a total of $170 for those honings, so it was hardly a successful marketing campaign. When I have the time, I will be mailing refunds to each person who paid me for honing during my free honing offer. I will do this to maintain "the true spirit of the forum."

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Ron,

Do as you please, but in my mind you haven't done anything wrong, and I salute you for your willingness to help people out with your honing skills. What you did, was making sure people would not prey on your goodness, and I find that perfectly acceptable.

You haven't honed for me, (there was no need :)), but I would not accept a refund from you for work that you had done for me and I accepted paying for. That SRP in the mean time apparently decided on ruling out to offer free services on those terms, is understandable in one way or another, but it goes against my sense of fairness, if you, out of all people, were going to pay back your few sourly earned honing bucks. Buy your wife something nice instead. I'm sure she earned it more.

Kind regards,
Bart.

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Originally Posted by Joed

I don't see $170 for 117 razors as making any profit and do not feel you should refund the money just to 'keep the spirit of the forum", as noble an act it is.. I also feel that all others reading this post should comment on this act as your feelings dictate.

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I agree with Joed and Bart 100% Ron. Your offer was well within the spirit of the forum and you don't owe anyone a refund.

That makes four, Ron. I agree with Bart, Jimmy and JoeD.

You extending your original offer which was appreciated by many it seems. Decisions were made by forum leaders to prohibit further offers. Obviously such decisions must be respected and adhered to. However, you offered your service and some people agreed to pay you for additional work. Aren't those mutually agreed upon transactions?

I hope to see you around here more often when you can!

Chris L

I wanna put it out there that Utopian honed three blades for me. We were talking and I had something like 5 or 6 razors to send but could only afford 1 extra. (1 free plus 1 @ $15). I had 2 NOS razors and one big Jo Rodgers with a BIG chip (1/8" deep, minimum). I asked if I could send him all three, and if he was willing, could he hone the better of the two Solingens and the chipped JR- and if the JR was too gone, the two Solingens. And he said, "You know what, no sense in sending 3 to have 2 honed, can I afford to pay $20 for 3 honings?" And I said absolutely yes. That $20 went to paying for him grinding the chip out and honing a razor so close to a wedge that literally half of it is hone wear...

Utopian- mad props. I can't see our transaction as profitable to you in anyway (by hourly rate alone you probably didn't even make minimum wage...) and I am incredibly grateful for it. I haven't been able to contact you (full PM box) but if you read this, please PM me I need to ask you something. THANKS SO MUCH!

I think this is a good time to tell my story, since I think I am the most recent honester to offer free honing. My story is quite similar to Utopians, but has a totally different ending.

About 4 months ago I started to offer free honing to newbes and then to students, getting ready for school. The only thing I asked was for them to pay the return S&H fees. I thought this would be a good opportunity for me to get the experience I needed to be able to hone at the next level. I had already been offering to help members individually by sending them pm's, but it seemed to be a little slow to me. After the offer for free honing was made the numbers changed dramatically. Over the last 4 months I did 133 razors, before I had to stop doing them for free and start charging.

Out of all the razors, that were sent to me, only 3 were in what I would call the 3 month "time to re-hone" condition. The rest were somewhere between that and ebay specials, chipped edges, frowns, haven't seen daylight in 40 years and couldn't cut through butter if it had to. But out of the 133 razors only 1 went back that was beyond hope. Not bad, considering some of the stuff I saw over that 4 months.

Most of the razors sent in were in real need of just a good cleaning. So some of the blades needed sanding and almost all needed polishing. Scales on some had to be sanded and polished and all of this was done for free. Since this offer was supposed to be to newbes and students, I saw one show up in an ad that was sold as shave ready 3 days after I sent it back.

I too was advised by some that this was not a good marketing plan. At the time I couldn't understand why, but now it is crystal clear. After the "FOR SALE" sign went up on one of the razors I did I decided to do an inventory of where I stood on this adventure. Here are the facts!

As I was receiving packages in the mail I would take the money, that was in the package, and put it in an envelope. It was interesting to see how many came with no money, some would have $2 inside and the postage on the outside was $7.23. After a while, I requested $5 to cover S&H and got it most of the time.

So I kept the receipts from the PO and bubble envelopes, they added up to a little over $300. When I opened my envelope to make a deposit, it had $95. Without counting the .08/mile for gas and standing #12 in line with 2 desks open and each person steping up not having a clue what they were doing, I was at least ($205.00) in the red. Not a very good marketing plan.

Here are the breakdowns in the razors sent:
26 members x 1 razor = 26 razors
40 members x 2 razors = 80 razors
9 members x 3 razors = 27 razors

And to get them back:
Package 75 x $1.10 = $ 82.50
Postage 75 x 2.35 = 176.25 This is the avg. min. cost
Mileage 16 x .08 = 36.00
Total = $294.75

None of these costs include the expense of stones and other equipment necessary to do service at this level. Those costs are very subjective at this point, but I can tell you that most of us who do this to make money have in excess of $1,000.00 invested. This also does not take into consideration the time spent on each individual razor or the time spent in preparing the packaging to ship it back plus the time at the PO.

It was interesting to see my mail slow down considerably once I started charging for services. This of course was to be expected. This endevour has, in fact, let me establish myself in the honing community as a competent honester. I have made friends with some interesting individuals and learned quite a bit about honing and restoring razors. I still offer free services to some in real need and of course free honing, plus the cost of shipping, to anyone on active duty in the military.

So that's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Enjoy!

Ray

Of course there is coffee going out to you today.

This is a Timor roasted medium light to emphasize body and sweetness while trying to retain what acidity that is present. What you have is a medium to large bodied low acid coffee with overtones of chocolate and clean forest flavors (humus, cypress, mushroom).

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Originally Posted by Pyment

Of course there is coffee going out to you today.

This is a Timor roasted medium light to emphasize body and sweetness while trying to retain what acidity that is present. What you have is a medium to large bodied low acid coffee with overtones of chocolate and clean forest flavors (humus, cypress, mushroom).

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What are you some kind of coffeemiester of something ? :roflmao

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

What are you some kind of coffeemiester of something ? :roflmao

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I call myself an advanced hobbyist. I am better at roasting than honing.:)

here is a roaster like mine:

http://www.pennineteaandcoffee.co.uk...ages/toper.jpg

Here is a link to someone's eval of the same roaster I have.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/To...ncryptedv4.pdf

Ron,

Good to see (read?) you back -- and keep the money. Missed you at the Midwest Staight Razor Convocation at the place where the Cannon Fell. How did the move go? You know we've been on the razor's edge waiting for the details. Since it's been a while since we first perched on that razor's edge and are still there, that probably means it needs honing.... :tu

I always thought free honing offers from members was great thing... still belive it is... But can someone tell me why free honing is now "not allowed" on the forum?... is there a thread with that discussion?

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Originally Posted by smythe

I always thought free honing offers from members was great thing... still belive it is... But can someone tell me why free honing is now "not allowed" on the forum?... is there a thread with that discussion?

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I think free honing is still allowed. However, they just don't want to see any ads offering free honing. If a member is expressing frustration or having trouble, then free honing offers via pm would appear to be fine from my understanding.

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Originally Posted by smythe

I always thought free honing offers from members was great thing... still belive it is... But can someone tell me why free honing is now "not allowed" on the forum?... is there a thread with that discussion?

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

I think free honing is still allowed. However, they just don't want to see any ads offering free honing. If a member is expressing frustration or having trouble, then free honing offers via pm would appear to be fine from my understanding.

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Asked and answered correctly....

If there are any other questions I would be most happy to discuss them, in PM...

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

yea, its like the sign outside McDonalds. Billions served. Really practice makes perfect and skill won't hurt either.

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haha, except I wouldn't really consider McDonalds the top of their "craft."

I won't even eat at the place...just thinking about it...ehh...

So just because you've serviced billions doesn't make you great IMO

McDonalds is very good at what they do though. They are not pretending to be fine dining.

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Originally Posted by avatar1999

haha, except I wouldn't really consider McDonalds the top of their "craft."

I won't even eat at the place...just thinking about it...ehh...

So just because you've serviced billions doesn't make you great IMO

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Originally Posted by avatar1999

haha, except I wouldn't really consider McDonalds the top of their "craft."

I won't even eat at the place...just thinking about it...ehh...

So just because you've serviced billions doesn't make you great IMO

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Considering McDonald's is truly in the Real Estate business, and they own the most valuable real estate of any company in the world...:hmmm:

Edit: brief explanation of the point

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

McDonalds is very good at what they do though. They are not pretending to be fine dining.

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Yes, they are very good at contributing to the obesity and poor health of the population :)

No wonder everyone wants public health care...most of em probably eat at McD's hehe

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Originally Posted by avatar1999

Yes, they are very good at contributing to the obesity and poor health of the population :)

No wonder everyone wants public health care...most of em probably eat at McD's hehe

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Pretty soon the burger and fries will have a label that says it may be hazardous to your health. :dropjaw:

A perfect example of SixGun being amazingly helpful once again!!

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The way things work, have worked, and don't work...

The truth of the matter is there is no test other then the public opinion one...

Way back in the old days :) if you wanted to establish yourself, you just jumped right in, Joe Chandler actually explained it to me... About doing some work for free, actually just helping out when needed.. So that's what I did, I saw a newb struggling, I would just jump in and offer.. Doc had a few razors for the troops going out, I offered, someone had their great grandfathers razor to fix up, I offered, pretty soon people were asking me to do more and more, and they offered $$$, that was the old way and it still works...

What happened next was the newer way, people started posting "Free Honing Offers" at first we thought this was a good thing, but quickly realized that this actually was not so good, so we stopped those offers on the forum...As some people took advantage of it and basically were running a supermarket promotion out of it, basically buy one get one free... this was just not in the true spirit of the forum...

You can definitely just hang your shingle out in the classifieds, but if people don't know of you, and haven't heard of your skills then business will be slow starting...
Still the best way of getting established is "JUST HELP" if you read about some poor newb stuck in the hone zone, just offer to help. If yer a restorer just offer to help out in the monthly giveaways...
There are tons of people on the forum that just need help...
I still do this, so does Lynn, and Max, and we all are swamped with work...
Remember what the forum is really about, and it all just comes together...
we are really here just to help each other out.... :soapbox:

The more people you help, the more people will know your name, and the ball starts rolling along...

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I must tell you all that I am enjoying my freshly roasted coffee from Pyment. During the course of doing free honing I did some bartering with several of the folks requesting honing. I do believe in the barter system, by the way. One of those was dave. His coffee is delightful and his honing continues to be free. He is a great guy to do business with.

Ray

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Originally Posted by rayman

One of those was dave. His coffee is delightful and his honing continues to be free. He is a great guy to do business with.

Ray

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I'll take care of my own honing thank you but I'll take all the free fresh roasted coffee I can get. :rofl2:

Coffee is the second most traded commodity in the world. Therefor using fresh roasted coffee for barter has ample precedent.

How was the Timor? I have been drinking the rest of that batch. It didn't round into shape until the 3rd day after roasting. Big body and sweetness with some great baker's chocolate. I don't know how you take your coffee, but I think that milk would really bring that chocolate to the fore.

BTW, I don't know if there is a test for Coffeemeister, but when I went to the SCAA (Specialty Coffee Association of America - I am a member) meeting, I did get my level 1 specialty tea certification.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Asked and answered correctly....

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Not entirely... A Question if you don't mind.

Is it OK for the "Free honing offers ("...buy one get one free" or whatever supermarket promotion one wants to offer...) be conducted in the Classifieds sub forum Member Services?

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

If there are any other questions I would be most happy to discuss them, in PM

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Feel free to remove the post if this the question is inappropriate to be asked in public, and please be kind enough to accept my apologies.

I can't really see this thread accomplishing anything positive. We decided to do away with the free honing threads because we wanted this site to be what it's always been about..... A bunch of guys who love everything about straight razors and who pitch in to help each other on a one to one basis, without worrying about gain or recognition or trying to start a service down the road. We are not by any means saying you can not help a newbie out if he needs it. Please when you see a new guy having problems in a thread reach out and offer to help him with whatever he needs. But don't start a thread trying to attract new guys to you in hopes of helping on a large scale. This leads to all kinds of issues like being sent more razors than you can return in a timely manner, or losing money in shipping costs. It also opens the door for the few people who would take advantage of the new folks by marketing the two for one services. While I truly believe that our members are trying to help there are those out there who are not. Like the few that have sometimes disappeared while still in possession of members razors. We also have no problem with members who want to start honing for profit and supply you a place in the classifieds for you to list your services. But we still do not want you to have sales or two for one offers. You are all on equal footing here and we see nothing to be gained by competing against one another, your work will speak for itself. So again please feel free to help each other out in the sense of fellowship and brotherhood that has always existed here. Just please keep it on a one on one basis. With all this said I am closing this thread.