Another honing video...

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10-04-2009, 08:27 AM
JimR

Another honing video...My Barber.

A J.R. Torrey honed by my barber, Kawaguch-sensei. This razor was honed up to 8K, a nice shaving edge fresh and clean for him. I had breadknifed out a small amount of smile in the razor, but a touch remained at the toe and he didn't like that....

I'm still working on translating it (any help would be appreciated...his Yamaguchi-ben is hard on my ears) but I think you will get a lot of the idea from the video.

A couple of times I forgot I was recording and the camera went crazy...sorry about that. And forgive my broken Japanese...

YouTube - Honing a razor

**EDIT** ONgoing translation:

Around the 00:20-00:55 mark

K: About this much.
Me:Ok, ok...
K: Do about this much, and it'll be really different.
{pause}
K: The hone is Best? (Even my wife doesn't understand this one...). The hone is really flat/smooth, that's why it's stuck. (He picks up the hone using the stuck nagura).

(Then he talks to the guy watching, who says "Unbelievable...")

1:02
(He starts honing the razor...)
K: Like this, yeah? Slow is fine. When you do it, about three times is good. (I think he means circles...that ISN'T the stroke he showed me before...)
J: Three times...
K: Then change sides.
{pause}
K: About like this...
{pause}
1:25ish
K: To know if you7re doing it righ, look at the color (points to slurry). (At this point, I have no idea what his WORDS are, but I get the feeling he's saying that the color of the slurry is the best indicator of your honing--the faster it changes, the better you're doing. Maybe...)

1:40
K: When the color starts to change you're honing right.
Me: The amount of steel is increasing...

{He goes over to the window to check the edge by it's color}

2:35
K: The part of the edge that i honed is right here, you see? Up to here, it honed well. This part here, that i honed, is straight. This part (points to tip) is rounded. This part, you raised the tip when you were honing. Anyway, there's no color. This is the part I honed (points to straight edge of blade). The end...
ME: The end is rounded (meaning there bevel extends up onto the toe a bit from a previous smile...)
{back to the counter...}

3:01
K: If you really pushed it, you could hone the tip like this (exaggerates a tip-down position) but if you do that the edge won't be any good. To hone this out (looks carefully at the blade) it'll take about an hour. (Meaning to hone out the smiling tip on this hone...).
ME: Really?
K: If you honed it...
Me: Sooo...This part, the one ou just honed...Will it shave well?
K: Not quite yet...
ME* How do you tell? Just by looking? (long pause while I search for words)Feeling with your fingers?
K: no no, no need. Just by looking, I can see in the color...a little more. But...This will cut, I think. (Tests on his arm) It'll cut.

3:54
ME: Ok, well, (Here I WANTED to ask about overhoning, but failed miserably) Can you hone too much? You said to go for an hour...
K: OK, here...One time, ten minutes. Ten minutes, ten minutes, ten minutes...to one hour. Don't just hone for one hour.
ME: Don't...
K: Even just five minutes...ten minutes. Try it.

ME: And always use this nagura? For example, at the end, hone with just water...
K: Don't.
ME: Don't.
K: Don't. It'll be rough. This (indicates slurry) will get finer over time. Just with this (stone), the color won't change (rinses stone).
{starts honing with water only}
5:05
K: (Totally don't understand...something "don't use..."
5:45
K: This color...there's no light (???) Just look at the light.
ME: (not seeing what he wants me to see) Sooo...it's not there? The color?
K: Yeah.

{back to the counter. at this point, I forgot about the camera...sorry}
6:04
K: (???)
ME: This Nagura, it's the same stone as this stone?
K: This is a good stone (???)

Here it breaks up.

PLEASE, if I did anything wrong or mistranslated, POST it. I'm not at all sure of a lot of this...
10-04-2009, 08:51 AM
Lesslemming

this is one nice video to watch, I would love to hear what he has to say while inspecting the razor. Unfortunately I don´t understand japanese.
The hone itself looks (and sounds) very very nice
10-04-2009, 01:19 PM
joke1176

Interesting video. He has that "quick, but soft" way of handling a razor and hone that has years of experience behind it.

I am looking forward to further translation.

Is that the hone of yours that ruins your edges?
10-04-2009, 03:32 PM
matt321

Yep, +1. He knows his way around the hone.

Facinating stuff JimR. Thanks for dragging the camera along for the ride.
10-04-2009, 04:21 PM
turbine712

So Jim, after taking your razors and hone back to him, what did you learn that he does compared to what you were doing?
10-04-2009, 05:25 PM
JimmyHAD

Really great stuff Jim. Thanks very much for posting it. If he ever gets around a strop I would love to see him in action and btw, I don't understand a word but the fact that you speak the language impresses me.
10-04-2009, 07:31 PM
Bart

Great video.
You can see that man has vast honing experience in his fingers.

thanks for posting,

Bart.
10-04-2009, 10:49 PM
jendeindustries

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Really great stuff Jim. Thanks very much for posting it. If he ever gets around a strop I would love to see him in action and btw, I don't understand a word but the fact that you speak the language impresses me.

We all speak "Razor", it's a universal language!:beer1:

Jim's experience is exactly the same as when I "speak knife" with my knife makers. You kind of understand, and use a lot of common sense to fill in the blanks. I agree, though - if only we could truly understand what they were saying.....

My guy once told me "The more you know about sharpening, the more you need to know." (He wrote it down on a piece of paper, and my wife translated it for me)

Great video, Jim! If only it were longer - I'd love to see him go from beginning to finished product.....:D
10-05-2009, 12:12 AM
JimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by joke1176

Interesting video. He has that "quick, but soft" way of handling a razor and hone that has years of experience behind it.

I am looking forward to further translation.

Is that the hone of yours that ruins your edges?

Thanks. At this point, it's more "What the HECK is he saying" than, "I think he's saying X". And yes, that is the hone in question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbine712

So Jim, after taking your razors and hone back to him, what did you learn that he does compared to what you were doing?

He uses very very thick slurry. When I used slurry, it was never that thick. I tended not to use it because it's not recommended around here. I'll be using it from now on.

Also, he's using full circles. When I went before, he told me to use a kind of circling X-stroke--Do a complete circle then extend the last stroke down to finish with just the tip on the hone. I think I like the circles more...I'll try them out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Really great stuff Jim. Thanks very much for posting it. If he ever gets around a strop I would love to see him in action and btw, I don't understand a word but the fact that you speak the language impresses me.

Thanks, but I speak it very poorly. I don't know half the words I need to know to have this conversation. And I KNEW I forgot to ask him something! :gaah: I want to see him strop, too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

We all speak "Razor", it's a universal language!:beer1:

Jim's experience is exactly the same as when I "speak knife" with my knife makers. You kind of understand, and use a lot of common sense to fill in the blanks. I agree, though - if only we could truly understand what they were saying.....

My guy once told me "The more you know about sharpening, the more you need to know." (He wrote it down on a piece of paper, and my wife translated it for me)

Great video, Jim! If only it were longer - I'd love to see him go from beginning to finished product.....:D

Thanks Tom, yeah...it's very much a "hey, I think I know what he's talking about here..." kind of thing.

And as for start to finish, I honestly think that's it. Like, he said it would take an hour to hone out that smile...he didn't say anything about other hones, or low grits or breadknifing or tape. Just keep honing, it'll get there.