Touch up on a coticule

Hi,

I've noticed that for me, I need a little bit of slurry on my coticule to get a good touch up-- water only not enough.

When I recieved my razors that were honed by others, I needed to step back to a full slurry to get any response on a touch up-- I suspect that was due to honemeisters using paste + strop for a final step which put a slight curve on the bevel (?). Once past this, I only needed a very thin slurry to get a response.

Are any coticule users able to get a decent touch up with coticule+water only?


-Chief

I haven't had my coticule long enough to try using it for a touch-up.

I do get a very nice edge off it with just water tho. I've been experimenting with Bart's Dilucot method, as well as Coti + slurry -> BBW + slurry -> Coti + water.

I think the only reason I use the second method more, is because otherwise I feel my purchase of a combination stone would be a waste :rofl2:

I also have 3 Wapi's I just honed up that I am going to check the shaves on:

#1) Coti -> C12k -> CrOx balsa

#2) Coti -> C12k

#3) Coti -> CrOx balsa

Will be curious to see how they compare. I'm sure I'll have to post something once I try them out.

If you need to "touch-up" that implies you need some cutting action rather than just polishing. Unless you have a "fast" coticule a little slurry makes sense.
My coti produces no sign of swarf until about 90-100 passes with just water.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

If you need to "touch-up" that implies you need some cutting action rather than just polishing. Unless you have a "fast" coticule a little slurry makes sense.
My coti produces no sign of swarf until about 90-100 passes with just water.

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This makes sense. Even though I love cotis I still use a barbers hone for touch ups when its time 3-6 laps depending on steel and/or grind and Im as good as new. Even though you can get a good finished edge out of the yellow its so much simpler to touch up on a barbers hone.

I have many coticules and you should be able to touch up on coti with water depending on your coticule with 30 to 100 laps if that does'nt work very slight slurry then water and good stropping makes al the differance linen then leather. now i'm using just coticule for all my honing i' getting amazing edges and don't need paste some coti a very slow with water some just polish may be yours is just polishing. how many laps have you tryed

I do virtually all my honing on my 8x3 (a fast one). For touchups, ~30 laps on water is usually good. I always finish on lather, though. Crox is not needed at all. :D

I usually finish on the coticule and polish with .3 micron honing film affixed to the steel back of my dmt. For touch-ups I do, something like 2 laps on the coticule and then maybe 10 laps on the film. As usual, YMMV. BTW, I never use anything but water on any of my stones.

Cheers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gary haywood

I have many coticules and you should be able to touch up on coti with water depending on your coticule with 30 to 100 laps

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Gary i have a problem to understand above sentences?
Do you know what it could be?
if yes would you please let me know. In case your answer is no then i come back and try to Explain.

First of all you can easily touch up on a coticule depending on your edge. coticules do vary i just got my self one that realy refines alot more than my other with just water so much so i don't use paste where as i normaly would to get real keeness that i prefer this one leaves my edge so keen it ubalievable i love it. what i'm saying is if water on coti does'nt bring edge back i would go back to a sight slurry then water. normaly 30 to 100 lapson water should be enough if not i'd drop back to a slight slurry then water. hope that sounds clearer

This is the problem i have.
1 st. What does " TOUCH UP "MEANS?
2 nd. if you are trying to do 30-100 laps you are putting final edge to the blade not touching up.
lastly
I am getting tired to explain People to make 2-4 strokes on barber hone is easier then making 20-50 laps on pasted strop or doing 30-100 laps in any stone Including coticule,escher, charnley forest so on on on.


All above is my understanding . i could be wrong on definition of the language. i really do think touch up means quick ,time saving action .you spend 1 minutes and continue to shave etc.
By the Way i think Gary i have the finest coticule you will ever Could find.
This coticule does similar job Escher's etc

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

By the Way i think Gary i have the finest coticule you will ever Could find.
This coticule does similar job Escher's etc

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How much ..... $ is what I mean ? :D

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

How much ..... $ is what I mean ? :D

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Jimmy you need to knock me down with baseball bat and then try to open my hands. may be you will be successful. GL on this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Jimmy you need to knock me down with baseball bat and then try to open my hands. may be you will be successful. GL on this

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But Sham..... I have a Devonshire Oil stone to trade. :roflmao

BTW, I agree with your previous point that by definition a 'touch up' is a few strokes on a barber hone or flat bed/chrom ox in the midst of a shave.

Well... 30+ strokes on a natural finisher really isnt that big of a deal....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

But Sham..... I have a Devonshire Oil stone to trade. :roflmao

BTW, I agree with your previous point that by definition a 'touch up' is a few strokes on a barber hone or flat bed/chrom ox in the midst of a shave.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Well... 30+ strokes on a natural finisher really isnt that big of a deal....

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I don't disagree with that Ben. I guess it is splitting hairs. The old barber I got my first Swaty from kept one in the pocket of his barber smock and if a razor pulled a bit when he was giving a shave a few strokes on the dry Swaty was a touch up. I guess 20 or 30 on a coticule or an Escher is a touch up fair enough.... especially if you haven't got a barber hone. :)

I like the edges off my nakayama. So i usually do touchups with that :)

I will say, i have shaved off my barber hone and I would be perfectly happy with it if not for the other expensive stones I have :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't disagree with that Ben. I guess it is splitting hairs. The old barber I got my first Swaty from kept one in the pocket of his barber smock and if a razor pulled a bit when he was giving a shave a few strokes on the dry Swaty was a touch up. I guess 20 or 30 on a coticule or an Escher is a touch up fair enough.... especially if you haven't got a barber hone. :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

But Sham..... I have a Devonshire Oil stone to trade. :roflmao

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Jimmy i have spend more then 4 years and have bought more then 130 coticules to get this one.Now you decide

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

This is the problem i have.
1 st. What does " TOUCH UP "MEANS?
2 nd. if you are trying to do 30-100 laps you are putting final edge to the blade not touching up.
lastly
I am getting tired to explain People to make 2-4 strokes on barber hone is easier then making 20-50 laps on pasted strop or doing 30-100 laps in any stone Including coticule,escher, charnley forest so on on on.


All above is my understanding . i could be wrong on definition of the language. i really do think touch up means quick ,time saving action .you spend 1 minutes and continue to shave etc.
By the Way i think Gary i have the finest coticule you will ever Could find.
This coticule does similar job Escher's etc

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I like using coticule it does'nt matter to me if it takes more or less strokes to get me shaving i can do 30 to 100 laps in 2 to 4 or 5 minutes i have a barbers hone i will try it some time i'm sure your right but it does'nt apeal to me like i say i like the edge of coticule and i'm sticking with that hone. many people do put final edge on razor with coticule i do the whole process with my coticule it take loads of laps but it does'nt bother me i'm doing it for my self. the point is you can maintain a razor with just a coticule and most people thats all they have not every one has a barbers hone i have one and i have never got round to using it i just prefer the coticules. I will try some day just for you.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Well... 30+ strokes on a natural finisher really isnt that big of a deal....

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Thats what i thought

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gary haywood

I like using coticule it does'nt matter to me if it takes more or less strokes to get me shaving i can do 30 to 100 laps in 2 to 4 or 5 minutes i have a barbers hone i will try it some time i'm sure your right but it does'nt apeal to me like i say i like the edge of coticule and i'm sticking with that hone..

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Gary Problem is in here.
When person advice others he shouldn't think about for himself. You or i doesn't matter can do what we want but there is a differences what you do and what you advise to others.
In my opinion You can advise to others what is right in certain situation.
Example.
in this case we are talking about touch up.
to advise rest of the people to use coticule for final touch up is not appropriate.
( This doesn't mean you cannot use coticule you can use anything you like including charnley forest stone. end up making 200 laps)
Example when someone use Barber hones for touch up. you went to shave and find out blade is pulling. you pick up barber hone 2-4 strokes you ready continue to shave. your face didn't cool down etc no mess etc.
Lets say you went to shave and find out razor pulls.
Pick up coticule go head make slurry make 30 laps oops ----didn't work need alittle more 20 more worked now razor is ready.
what happen your face was shave ready you spend so much time and then come back . now your face is cold and you have to do everything all over.
Do yo understand my point?
Touch up means- touch up not final touch up to the edge.
Do i use barber hones now ? No i don't.
have i used -yes and i know they do the job
i am sure if any person will try it they will find out it will work.
hope i am clear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Gary Problem is in here.
When person advice others he shouldn't think about for himself. You or i doesn't matter can do what we want but there is a differences what you do and what you advise to others.
In my opinion You can advise to others what is right in certain situation.
Example.
in this case we are talking about touch up.
to advise rest of the people to use coticule for final touch up is not appropriate.
( This doesn't mean you cannot use coticule you can use anything you like including charnley forest stone. end up making 200 laps)
Example when someone use Barber hones for touch up. you went to shave and find out blade is pulling. you pick up barber hone 2-4 strokes you ready continue to shave. your face didn't cool down etc no mess etc.
Lets say you went to shave and find out razor pulls.
Pick up coticule go head make slurry make 30 laps oops ----didn't work need alittle more 20 more worked now razor is ready.
what happen your face was shave ready you spend so much time and then come back . now your face is cold and you have to do everything all over.
Do yo understand my point?
Touch up means- touch up not final touch up to the edge.
Do i use barber hones now ? No i don't.
have i used -yes and i know they do the job
i am sure if any person will try it they will find out it will work.
hope i am clear.

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But the name of this thread is "Touch up on a coticule". If somebody is asking about doing touch ups on a coticule, why is it inappropriate to give them information about doing touch ups on a coticule?

The question was is there any coticule users that can get a good touch up of coticule with water ?and i answerd yes depending on your coticule i can with 30 Plus laps. I understand that what your saying is barbers hone is much quiker or 15 strops on pasted strop is just as quik. i just answerd realating to coti like i say i've not used my barbers hone yet i will use it soon and if i like it i will take it to australia with me as a travel hone.

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Originally Posted by ChickenBurrito

But the name of this thread is "Touch up on a coticule". If somebody is asking about doing touch ups on a coticule, why is it inappropriate to give them information about doing touch ups on a coticule?

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You must of posted as i was thats what i thought the post was about not barbers hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChickenBurrito

But the name of this thread is "Touch up on a coticule". If somebody is asking about doing touch ups on a coticule, why is it inappropriate to give them information about doing touch ups on a coticule?

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Welcome to SRP. While it drifted a bit from the original question it is still at least half on topic ... touch ups. :) Sometimes one post leads to another and the next thing you know ...... :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I guess it is splitting hairs.

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You need to go back to the 8k hone then, most likely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gary haywood

I have many coticules and you should be able to touch up on coti with water depending on your coticule with 30 to 100 laps if that does'nt work very slight slurry then water and good stropping makes al the differance linen then leather. now i'm using just coticule for all my honing i' getting amazing edges and don't need paste some coti a very slow with water some just polish may be yours is just polishing. how many laps have you tryed

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Hi,
I've tried 100+ laps on just water on an edge that was probably 2 months from the last really nice hone job. The razor still was shaving well, just started to pull a bit on ATG passes, so it was in "touch up" range not full "rehone" range.

I know my coticule is a hard one (it takes quite a while to develop swarf with slurry).

I just tried touching up another razor last night-- I put a very light slurry (I mean very light...), then kept dilluted it across about 100 laps, rinsed, then 50 on just water and it came out great.

I wish I had another coticule so I could see the differences (hint hint)

-Chief
PS, will pay for nice 6x2...

I have a fast cutting 8X3 coticule (develops swarf after only 8-10 passes) that I use for touchups (50 or more passes needed), but lately I have been getting better results using my antique store Escher with slurry, then without. The Escher also develops swarf in the slurry pretty quickly. The difference in the final sharpness is very slight, but the coticule definitely gives a smoother edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BHChieftain

Hi,
I've tried 100+ laps on just water on an edge that was probably 2 months from the last really nice hone job. The razor still was shaving well, just started to pull a bit on ATG passes, so it was in "touch up" range not full "rehone" range.

I know my coticule is a hard one (it takes quite a while to develop swarf with slurry).

I just tried touching up another razor last night-- I put a very light slurry (I mean very light...), then kept dilluted it across about 100 laps, rinsed, then 50 on just water and it came out great.

I wish I had another coticule so I could see the differences (hint hint)

-Chief
PS, will pay for nice 6x2...

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I just brought one from barts coticule vault you need to have alook they are very reasonable and he as tested them and done a right up. I just got a very fast one thats what he said and fast this thing turns my slurry bluey grey in no time i hav'nt used it for touch up yet but with water i no this coti will work with water . i'm passing hht of mine with dilucot method on fine hairs no paste at all. the shaves are as good as it gets and smooth aint the word,if you want one i highly recomend bart is very help ful tell him what you want and he will sort you one out.

btw that what i would do if water failed i'd just drop back to misty slurry then water i no it takes longer but it worth it i don't think you can beat the dge of a coticule if you get the right one for your self (btw that my opinion) It takes time but i don't mind its all good fun and if the edge is good even better. www.coticule.be try this forum then click onto coticule vault

Good point, I was going to say that no two coti's are alike. You really need to evaluate yours. Some are good Finisher's with Water, some are slow, some are fast, etc....
Bart is a good person to talk to. He knows all things Coticule. He's the one I ask when I have a coti question. For me, Touch ups, are on my Barbers Hone. It keeps me from having to break out the big guns for quite some time...I suspect that's why they were prefered by Barbers.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zib

Good point, I was going to say that no two coti's are alike. You really need to evaluate yours. Some are good Finisher's with Water, some are slow, some are fast, etc....
Bart is a good person to talk to. He knows all things Coticule. He's the one I ask when I have a coti question. For me, Touch ups, are on my Barbers Hone. It keeps me from having to break out the big guns for quite some time...I suspect that's why they were prefered by Barbers.....

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I own a barbers shop we shave with shavettes for ovious reasons. the chap and his dad before him used a coticule to keep there razors maintained along with roug on a strop they did'nt call it a coticule jim called it a natural stone that was so fine he is 79 years old he still works one day a week for me i asked him so many times about honing he shown me how to hone on a very old coticule that is very dished and the rag it is rapped in is coverd in slurry powder i asked him about abarbers hone if he ever used one he does'nt remember ever using one all though when your shaving clients in a barbers shop a barbers hone would be the quikest and best option.
He said when we were aprentices he would sharpen razors up and lather the chap[s up for a shave they were called lather lads and he also said he spent hours sharpning razors up and found it soul destroying ( may be so using coticule as we now no they are slow with water he never mentioned creating a slurry he said the hone created one naturaly.

He gave me my first razor it is a john clarke shefield steel he used it 50 years ago and i have to say it is an amazing shaver with out a dout the smoothess steel i have come across bart has shaved with this razor and he said it was a little jem i'm sure he would agree with me that it shaves amazing and it was honed of coticule. It was 50 years ago when he did is last shave so is memory not so good other wise i would liked to of got more info from him but i have seen is honing stone and his old strop witch belonged to his father how shop as been up and runing 76 years now. He also mentioned that razors would often get chiped and they would use a rougher stone he did'nt remember the name of it he just said it would put and edge on a razor but also take the edge of. This is just a little history that i no from my mate jim.

Great story Mate! Sheffield steel is among some of the best IMHO.
I've seen a guy here, "Seraphim" put it against another blade under his super duper microscope, You know he has a lab outside of MIT. He showed us how the Sheffield was superior....It was pretty amazing, it's on here somewhere.....

Anyway, When I come across the pond, I'll have to stop by for shave....

Rich

I've heard shefield steel has a great rep bart did say the grain of the steel was very good i own razors from nothing to my mastro livi as you no 700 pounds. And some that look great and some very basic. john clarke razor looks very basic but shaves like if not better than a £700 razor i'd never sell that one. your welcome any time for shave maybe i use the john clarke on you cheers gary

Yes, lovely story, Gary. Thanks.