Rodgers - Half Re-ground?!?!?!

I know, that reads really strange. Here's the scoop. I picked up a nice 3/4 Rodgers on the bay that looked like either a wedge or quarter hollow. The pics showed a clean and easy to restore blade with just a little staining and minor pitting that I'm OK with sanding myself. In sum it looks like a blade I'd use regularly, so I bid accordingly and won it. Here's a link to it:
Antique Straight Razor "JOSEPH RODGERS & SONS" BIGBLADE - eBay (item 320439333860 end time Oct-25-09 20:03:24 PDT)

It arrived today and as I was inspecting it, something about the blade geometry just didn't "feel" right. I cleaned up the little staining with some MAAS and felt wheel and got out the hones to keen it up. The moment I laid the blade on the stone it was obvious that it was a wedge, so went to look for the electrical tape. I laid the blade on the stone again but this time I put the other side face down - and it had magically turned into a quarter ground! I then looked at both sides much more carefully and realized that while the back side of the blade was still a wedge, the face side had been reground to a quarter hollow!

So I have 2 questions that I hope someone here here might be able to help with:

First, I like the blade and would love to keep it - but - how to hone it? Is there ANY way to hone a blade that has 2 different grinds, and if so, how might I go about that.

Second, (and this is a bit strange) since there are 2 different grinds, I became a little curious as to what else might be off-kilter with it. The only thing I could find was that the maker's mark is not deeply embedded like most all other Rogers' that I have. It APPEARS to have been laser etched but I'm not familiar enough with that technique to be sure. My point is, if the mark was indeed laser etched, and since there were no lasers back in 1890 or whenever this was made, well, I'm not sure what to think. I suspect you can possibly see it clearly enough in the 3rd photo. It LOOKS valid but the depth is exceptionally shallow, almost a surface thing with no depth. Also the star or asterisk next to the iron cross is very uneven when viewed live (it's not too obvious in the photo).

Thanks in advance for any insight that you may be able to shed on this. The seller is one that I've always had good dealings with in the past so I'm not suggesting any funny business there. I just want to make sure that if there's a way to reasonably hone this that I know about it before I ask to return it. Also I'm a little curious about the maker's mark as how that might have been created - mainly to be sure it's really a Rodgers.

It's a nice looker but if it can't be honed then it's of no worth to anyone.

Sounds like a microtome, check the wiki they may have info.

I went to the Wiki but not there. Though I did manage to find one example of the Rodgers & Son maker's mark that's similar to this one. Given that the face side of the blade was almost assuredly reground, it could be that the mark was ground as well and resulted in it being very shallow now. I'll consider that part solved.

I researched microtomes a bit. As I understand it, a microtome is expressly for taking tissue samples. But I'd think that a blade this wide would be a bit heavy for taking tissue samples, but it could be I guess. I couldn't locate any similar grinds in the Wiki but I'm not sure what to call this grind combination. As I look at the grind scratches it's obvious that the face side was either sanded or reground at some point after the original grinding. There's a definite difference in the scratch pattern from one side to the other. Well, the search continues.

At this point, regardless as to why the grinds differ, how does one hone this bugger???

Yeah, it's a microtome. Can tell from the auction pics.

They're made that way for slicing thin layers of flesh.

Other ppl have picked them up and sharpened them to shave with, but from what I hear, they can potentially be a pain to hone up.

Nice find tho :)

*EDIT* Search the forums for "microtome". You should pull up several threads.

also, ask JimmyHAD. He has honed one up I know...others have as well, but I can't remember who atm.

Here's one thread just real fast http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...microtome.html

Yeah, that looks like a microtome to me. Actually it is pretty neat to shave with once honed. No flex in the blade on one of those. :) Good price on that one too.

Thanks gents! I just read Jimmy's thread and am also now convinced that this is a microtome. After reading about how to actually hone this, I've decided to send it back to it's original home. Sounds like a tremendous effort to get it in shape.

If I could place tape on just one side and hone it normally I might go for it, but as it stands, one would have to tape the wedge side, hone it to some level, remove the tape and turn it over and get the other side to match. Then keep doing it until the bevels are even. Then you do it all over again for the polishing phase. Too much work!

Anyway thanks again - you saved me a ton of work (and $50 or so).

EDIT: It DID just occur to me that if said seller is in the house :-) then if he offered to hone this bad boy up to smooth and shave ready status I could maybe keep it.... :-)

I've honed one too. Mine, unlike Jimmy's, was totall flat on the flat ground side (from the spine to the edge, one plane). I taped a toothpick to the top of the spine on the back side such that the concave side of the spine was also taped and honed it like that. It was something of a pain, but it worked and shaved.

If you're thinking that Ebay Jimbo is our Jimbo, think again. Ours is in Australia, last I checked. Though I suppose ebay Jimbo could be some other member.

Holli I DID think that was our Jim but also then noticed the literal "worlds apart" locations.

Still no word back from the seller, but I sometimes drop off the grid for a few days and don't check email, so let's see how it goes Monday or Tuesday. This puppy is going back. The seller has a few blades up for auction so maybe he'll put one up that I like and we can just call it even - saves us both some time and effort - except for shipping it back and the time I've wasted figuring this out. After reading about different ways guys have honed them, I can probably get this keen, but I just don't have the time. It looks nice, but I bought a straight razor, not a microtome!

Just be prepared, he may say "pictures are part of the description and I thought it was a straight razor so that's what I wrote... etc etc." But he does have a good rating, so maybe he'll work with you. Here's hoping it works out for you.

Yeah Holli I'd bought a few blades from him in the past and he was fine. But unfortunately he didn't even go that direction you suggest. I just got a message where he maintains that it was sold "as is" even though it's not a straight razor. Hmmm seems like misrepresentation in the description regardless if he knew it or now. Seems that once a buyer points that out that the seller would make it right. I just sent another message offering a few solutions - let's see how he responds.

Just as an FYI, I've seen more dremeled, ground, and otherwise sketchy razors sold as "mint" by this ebay Jimbo than anyone else. I've never bought from him, but the language he uses and the photos he posts have put him on my "Swindlers list" (rimshot, please)

Thanks - he's on my list of sellers to avoid as well now. He maintains that the razor was sold as-is. Even though he also suggests that I can sell it at a large profit by listing it as a microtome blade (thus admitting that it's not a straight razor) but using some twisted logic he also maintains that the description is still correct. It's not a straight razor, and he listed it as a straight razor, but it was sold as-is. I guess that means he provides a few photos, puts whatever words will bring the highest bids - and if you win, you get whatever it is that he says it is. Logic like that will give you a headache!

Well, he's in the paypal dispute system as of this morning. Though I'd be willing to guess it's not the first time his name has appeared in front of the them. Makes one wonder how he managed to get that Trusted Seller seal (or whatever that new seal is).

Does anyone know how to set up an option as a buyer to prevent (or at least alert) you from bidding on designated sellers? You know how it goes - late at night, you see a great looker and start to bid - but remember only afterward that the seller gave you problems a year ago.

I believe there is a 'block this seller' option, which will screen them out of your ebay experience.

Thanks - I'll see if I can find it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

I believe there is a 'block this seller' option, which will screen them out of your ebay experience.

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Mike you do this go head and call ebay and complaint with paypal then leave very nice negative feedback as misrepresentation of the item. i got similar problem and waiting answer from him. if he won't take it back i am leaving for him very lovely negative feedback.
You know and they cannot leave you negative anymore. Ebay representative said to me.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Mike you do this go head and call ebay and complaint with paypal then leave very nice negative feedback as misrepresentation of the item. i got similar problem and waiting answer from him. if he won't take it back i am leaving for him very lovely negative feedback.
You know and they cannot leave you negative anymore. Ebay representative said to me.

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Go get 'em, Sham! If I were a seller I would be TERRIFIED to get negative feedback from a respectable, honest guy like you! Granted, they might not know that you're respectable and honest, but I know if I saw your name next to a negative feedback for a seller I wouldn't be buying from them!*






*Unless they were selling great hones, in which case I would suspect you do be using your honesty and respectability to lie to me.** I would totally buy from them. ;)

**This is the "Clinton System". I don't understand it either.

Thanks Sham - Unfortunately once I took the blade out of the packaging and made sure it was without cracks or chips and that it looked fine I left good feedback. It wasn't until a few hours later when I was about to touch up the edge on the hone that I saw the difference in the 2 sides. I will call and ask if there is a way to change my feedback based upon the unique circumstances here.

Is this the same seller that you are having a problem with? If it is, I think the seller picked the wrong guy to mess with! I may not be able to change my feedback now, but you can certainly leave some scathing words that will warn others! It's a bad day to be Jimob1461... Oh, did I just type the seller's handle? Ooops.

Mike no it is different seller. Ones i bought razor and title was saying 1 name and razor came in with different brand. had 60 years old box which is useless. I contact seller he said send back. i did but when i send i put razor in side box and put clear tape to keep close. As soon as he got the razor send me email i have put tape and that old box lost it is original condition. he didn't want to refund money. I contact ebay they did refund money and ask me to leave that person negative feedback. i very rare do leave negative feedback may be twice in my whole ebay history.
I think what helped me out is when i send him my first email i used ebay email services and all our conversation was on ebay. representative read them and start to laughing . right away i got everything settle. hope this helps.
New seller says Blade doesn't have crack i am waiting blade come up. in picture it looks like has crack but he says no. we will see.

Here's a pic from a Doctor's private collection, "The First Microtome"

Sorry, I didn't read every post, but you can dispute it on Paypal, and you'll probably win. It doesn't matter what he said, All you have to say, is it's not as described. Case closed...Acutally, I think it's kinda cool. I'd hang on to it.

I can't help feeling sorry for the seller - you all seem to ganging-up on him and bad-mouthing him.

As far as I can see, it is straight, it is a razor and he posted plenty of pics that make it obvious that one side is flat and the other ground - a classic microtome razor profile. Ebay is supposedly an "auction" site - whoever heard of sending things back that they bid on in a regular auction? Auctions imply "caveat emptor" - buyer beware - or ask questions and familiarise yourself with the article before bidding.

The seller's listing doesn't lead me to suspect that he is trying to deceive anyone - quite the opposite - those pictures are big, hi-resolution and plainly show what was on offer. I don't ever hear of anyone getting a stupendous, breath-taking, unbelievable bargain on Ebay and then asking the seller to take it back...

Just my two pennies worth - I know I'm in the minority.
Neil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zib

Here's a pic from a Doctor's private collection, "The First Microtome"
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...-microtome.jpg

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The round thing on the right is a microtome. The other object is a sectioning razor/knife. Looks like a razor and is usually flat on one side so as to cut a fine slice (section) of the sample that is being held in the microtome itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m0isty

The round thing on the right is a microtome. The other object is a sectioning razor/knife. Looks like a razor and is usually flat on one side so as to cut a fine slice (section) of the sample that is being held in the microtome itself.

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That takes me back a bit, to about 1971/72 - I was saving like mad for a kit like that, and had to travel to Holborn to the nearest vintage microscope shop (Brunel Microscopes, or Northern Biological Supplies - can't remember the name, all I know is that they aren't there now).

When I got there it was like an Aladdin's cave of gleaming old brass, knives, scalpels and weird looking objects. I could only afford the sectioning razor, the microtome was way out of my league.

When I got home I had to make do with a cotton reel - tape over one end, thin item to be sectioned in the middle, pour in melted hard paraffin wax - bingo - home-made microtome!

I bet a young boy couldn't travel to London alone and return home with a razor these days ... sad world, isn't it?!

Regards,
Neil