How do you hone a kitchen knife?

Hey,

I know it's a little off here, but it IS the honing forum after all..

I have these stones on which I'd like to sharpen some kitchen knives as they are useless for razors it seems. My question is, how the heck do you sharpen something that has little to no spine? A razor is quite easy, you just put it flat on the hone and use as little pressure as possible.

But how does it work with a kitchen knife? I've looked it up a little but everybody uses different techniques, I want to check on SRP because I'm pretty sure there'll be at least a dozen experts in this field on here as well!

It seems that some people also go back and forth etc... and not just forward like with a razor etc.. I'd really love to know how it works for knives.

Thanks!

You might try shooting a PM to Alchemist, he makes knives professionally in Israel.

steady hand is all its needed.
You can also buy a sharpening guide to help you with that.
What brand are the knives?

depends on the knife but I generally sharpen 'general purpose' (kitchen, most of my pocket knives) at about 15 degrees for a 30 degree bevel. it works for me.

Don't over think it though, an fairly shallow and steady angle is better than you trying to get the angle perfect and never getting a sharp knife. Don't bother going too high in grit, maybe 4k, something like that as a bit of an indulgence.

It might be easier to practise on pocket knives first.

edit: I go back and forth, it's just quicker. Once I've got it reasonably sharp I do a few x strokes to tidy things up a tad.

As previously stated. Unlike a razor, you must hold the knife at a 30 degree angle. You can buy, or make a jig. They look like little wedges. Actually, they're like training wheels, once you get the hang of it, you won't need it. I do a combination of strokes when I do knives, including little ovals on the stones. ( for smaller knives) Normally, 4k is as high as you need to go.

Check this link from how stuff works:

http://home.howstuffworks.com/how-to...equipment1.htm

30 deg is way too much,
German knives take ~25 deg, Japanese can take anywhere between 5-25 total bevel angle, depending on the steel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zib

As previously stated. Unlike a razor, you must hold the knife at a 30 degree angle. You can buy, or make a jig. They look like little wedges. Actually, they're like training wheels, once you get the hang of it, you won't need it. I do a combination of strokes when I do knives, including little ovals on the stones. ( for smaller knives) Normally, 4k is as high as you need to go.

Check this link from how stuff works:

HowStuffWorks "How to Sharpen Knives"

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I have one of these sets below, and if you're just learning, it helps you get the feeling for the right angle. Just like with a razor, after a while, you will get the feel for holding the knife without a guide, but it's great to develop muscle memory. Honestly tho, unless you are dealing with a really damaged knife, you can get away with one of those in the 2nd picture, and you can pick em up at Walmart for about $8. When I sharpen my blades, I tend to shoot for ~25 degree angle on my kitchen knives. You don't want it REAL steep, or too shallow, or you will be resharpening a lot.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...XL._SS500_.jpg
http://z2-ec2.images-amazon.com/imag...229655317_.jpg

Most kitchens that dont rent knives (and most pro chefs) have a sharpening kit of 3 stones (most kitchens have the same triangle set that looks like it runs $80-150). Since you're taking off a LOT of metal relative to honing a razor, you must CONSTANTLY be flushing with fresh water/lubricant. Many do it every pass, some do it every 2-4 passes.

Angles vary. I've heard some Japanese blades are as little as 9 degrees. Most german steel is 15-20 degrees.

Other than that it's pretty much the same as honing a razor, except, I'd expect, many fewer passes... as the grits aren't as fine. (If I were to guess I'd say 1500/3000/4000 or thereish) I would typically only use the finest, sometimes the higher two... but I'd hone weekly when I was using the kitchen's knives (my knife has NEVER been honed, but I ONLY use it at home, and it's due for a honing actually). I'd do 6-8 passes per grade typically (both ways, alternating naturally). You can also use a tiny bit more pressure (if the knife isnt a total piece of stamped garbage, the weight of the knife and maybe a little bit of your hands weight should be plenty, definately dont press down... you WILL however feel the weight of the knife kind of causing you to press into the stone, this is normal), but if you feel like you are pressing too hard, you probably are.


... You mentioned push and pull... it's up to you. I push and pull because I don't use my alternate hand much, and I find push/pull gives me better control than alternating hands or holding the knife underhanded to maintain one or the other.

Avatar, 25 is pretty steep. What knives do you use? My Wusthof's recommend 10-15 degrees... however, they underestimate a bit as I believe their angle is actually in the 13-18 range... they kind of assume people will undergauge the angle they are shooting for.

Hi,

I use Spyderco SharpMaker.

This tool has worked really well, and it is very, very easy to use; works a treat with serrated blades too, and it takes the guesswork out of keeping the blade at the correct angle.

Best regards

Russ

for a knife 20 deg is key!

I seem to just be dulling the knife lol, definitely not passing the TPT test..

Well. Same as razors, it's a learned technique.

One technique is to sharpen one side until you have even bevel and burr, then continue from the other side until equal bevel and the burr is gone. Then moving into smaller grit. Also, using steel on them is quite similar to stropping (little pressure, but use same angle as with stones), it aligns the edge and it does make it feel sharper.

Here a video that kind of gives the idea on how to:

YouTube - Sharpening the Mizuno Tanrenjo Wa-Gyuto

Above said knife in action:
http://www.youtube.com/user/eceipret.../5/F1wNO6vFCI0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IanS

Avatar, 25 is pretty steep. What knives do you use? My Wusthof's recommend 10-15 degrees... however, they underestimate a bit as I believe their angle is actually in the 13-18 range... they kind of assume people will undergauge the angle they are shooting for.

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It's "about" 25...I don't know just how accurate the different angle settings are on the DMT kit rails, but from my math, it's probably closer to 20 than 25.

I guess I should have clarified, I have that bigger angle on my chef knife, since I basically just use it for chopping, and wanted a longer lasting edge because of that.

My paring/fillet knives get the lower angle since the edge isn't "knocked around" as much :p (~15 degrees.)

Oh yeah, and I use Calphalon Katana series knives.

maintaining a consistent angle is the hardest thing for me. I don't sharpen enough knives to get good at it.

The sharpmaker helped me.

I just noticed there is a coarse diamond set.

I think I need it. Some of the knives I have sharpened have been pretty dull.

Yeah if you use your knife like a lot of Chinese cooks do (A big freaking meatcleaver looking thing as your chefs) than I can definately see 25 degrees or higher.

Sharpening knives is what got me into straights. For knife sharpening newbies:

First, read Chad Ward's (author of Edge in the Kitchen) tutorial on Egullet.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?...nd-sharpening/

Next, Go get yourself an account at Knifeforums.com. Visit the "keeping sharp" section and the "In the Kitchen" section. Pay more attention to the "In the kitchen section".

With freehand sharpening, worry about keeping *close* to the same angle as you stroke. No one keeps an absolutely flat bevel. The video's posted by mainaman are by Curtis Chung, aka CDawg from knifeforums. I think his method is an easy and effective way of doing things.

The biggest problem that knife newbies have is not getting the bevels on each side to accurately meet in the middle. Forming a burr isn't a bad idea at all for kitchen knives. Form a burr, then remove the burr, then move on to the next grit. This way you're sure that you've got the bevel planes meeting.

What stones do you have? Low grit stones are good to begin with if you're knives are dull. If you have a DMT 325 C, wet it and go to town.

If you have specific questions after the above, feel free to ask.

Yes for spyderco, almost idiotproof tool- woks great for me :)

I have seen the video that mainaman showed in his post and use that method. The more you do it the better and more consistent you get at it [Practice]. I start with the D8C 325 and then switch to the Shaptons. I end up on the 4K with the knives. I also use that method for my razors setting the bevel. I am a two handed honer on the straights also.

bj

alot depends on the steel and heat treat of the blade

softer steels are harder to get rid of the wire edge and need a wider edge bevel
some of the Japanese style blades adn steels used can be honed down to under 10 degrees a side (limited use in most kitchens but fun )

steels are for softer steels and if used on a hard blade all you might do is chip te edge up (ther are glass hone rods that are not too bad if used right )
glass rods are much higher grit then the course honing steels