edge touch-up honing advice needed

Have been having a heck of time with my neck lately and am beginning think that one of the many factors playing a role in the burn is that the edges on the two razors I've been using aren't quite sharp enough to cleanly slice through the hairs of my course, wire brush beard.

Both razors I've been using were purchased shave ready (popped forearm hairs upon arrival) and have only been used 2-3 each:

• One was pretty good on the first shave, pulled quite a bit and was pretty irritating on the second, and pulled a lot and was very irritating on the third despite stropping before shaves 2 and 3.
• The other was great on the cheek but pulled a lot and was fairly irritating on my neck right from the start .

However, regardless of whether I use a 30 deg. angle ... a shallow 10 deg. angle ... go as close to WTG as I can on my sharp, angular jawline and neck ... XTG ... or what angle of attack I try using to get the blade in on the various hollows and curves of my neck, I'm still getting a heck of a lot of tugging, pulling, and irritation.

So, while I'm sure technique is still playing a part in it, I'm also wondering if there's also a good chance they just aren't quite sharp enough for my Brillo pad beard.

In an attempt to find out I'm think I'm going to make my first attempt at a little honing to touch up the edge on one of the two. If anything, maybe it'll at least give a basis of comparison for the two razors.

So here's my question: Do you think I would be better off trying a few passes on a CrOx balsa strop first... or a few light passes on a Norton 8k followed by a few no pressure passes on a Naniwa 12k?

First, try the crox strop first. If you need to rehone on a 8k after 3 shaves, you're doing something really wrong.

Second, are you sure you're stropping properly (and enough, I find min 30 strokes between shaves works for me)?

I'd also say start with the Chrome Ox and double check your stropping technique and your shaving technique as well. If ChromeOx doesn't do it, I think you would be better off sending them out as opposed to trying to touch them up yourself, unless you are confident in your honing abilities. That's not to say you shouldn't try to touch them up, you just might not be able to get them back to top form.

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Originally Posted by Malacoda

Both razors I've been using were purchased shave ready (popped forearm hairs upon arrival) and have only been used 2-3 each:

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Do they still pop forearm hairs now?

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Originally Posted by Malacoda

• One was pretty good on the first shave, pulled quite a bit and was pretty irritating on the second, and pulled a lot and was very irritating on the third despite stropping before shaves 2 and 3.

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In this case, you should really question your stropping technique. Another possible culprit is that you don't thoroughly dry the edge after use. Corrosion, even if you can't see it with the naked eye, is a quick and silent edge killer. It's important to dry the edge (and the rest of the razor) very well. Depending on the environment you store them in, applying a coat of oil may be necessary.

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Originally Posted by Malacoda

• The other was great on the cheek but pulled a lot and was fairly irritating on my neck right from the start .

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If the razor was declared "shaveready" by a reputed source, you must look at your shave technique. If it was just "shaveready" from the next guy, I think you should have the edge evaluated by a reputed honer.

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Originally Posted by Malacoda

So here's my question: Do you think I would be better off trying a few passes on a CrOx balsa strop first... or a few light passes on a Norton 8k followed by a few no pressure passes on a Naniwa 12k?

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The problem is, that you don't know much about the prior honing of those razors. Were they finished on flat hones, or were they finished on a strop with diamond compound? In the former case, the bevel is still very flat, and the very edge within reach of a few light laps on your Naniwa 12K. In the latter case, the bevel might be a slight bit convex, rendering the very edge out of reach of the 12K.
Were the razors honed with tape on the spine or not? If so, honing without tape on fine grits won't do much good, since the very edge won't be touching the hone's surface. Of course you could apply tape, no matter what, and hone on the 12K. You could end up creating a second bevel, but that does no harm.

All theory aside, here's what I would do:
Take the razor that was worst to begin with. Apply 2 layers of electrical insulation tape to its spine (yes, 2 because that will tip the razor on its very edge, regardless the prior honing job). Soak up the 12K in water for 15 minutes and perform about 20 light X-strokes.
This will create a very keen secondary bevel at the very edge of your razor, carrying only scratches of the 12K, which should provide a very smooth, clean shave.
Strop the razor well, and compare how it shaves now to how the other one shaves (the one you have not honed).

If there is serious improvement, that surely answers the "shaveready" question. If not, you could still try stropping that razor on CrO (reapply the tape). If that doesn't bring it up to speed, I would send them out.
I would not work on both razors the same time. Try to make one surpass the other. That will tell you more than loosing track on them both.

Good luck,
Bart.

Thanks for all the great advice guys, I appreciate it!

Bart, thanks for taking the time to offer such a detailed, thought out plan, think I'm going to run with it.

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Originally Posted by Bart

Do they still pop forearm hairs now? In this case, you should really question your stropping technique. Another possible culprit is that you don't thoroughly dry the edge after use. Corrosion, even if you can't see it with the naked eye, is a quick and silent edge killer. It's important to dry the edge (and the rest of the razor) very well. Depending on the environment you store them in, applying a coat of oil may be necessary.

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The one I've used 2-3 times and have stropped generates some tugging and will still pop a few forearm hairs if I go ATG. The one I've used once and haven't stropped yet is not popping arm hairs now that it has been used for one shave.

While I have been moving the blade at an ease pace and making sure to flip on the spine, I am very new to stropping so it's very possible my technique is still weak and playing a big part.

And now that you mention it Bart, in retrospect corrosion may be playing a pretty significant part as well - I've been wiping down the blade after each use but may not have been drying the bevel well out of fear of dulling the blade. Will definitely have to pay more attention to that in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

If the razor was declared "shaveready" by a reputed source, you must look at your shave technique. If it was just "shaveready" from the next guy, I think you should have the edge evaluated by a reputed honer.

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One was definitely a reliable reputed source, the other most likely but not 100% sure he's quite reached the 'master honer' level just yet.

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Originally Posted by Bart

The problem is, that you don't know much about the prior honing of those razors. Were they finished on flat hones, or were they finished on a strop with diamond compound? In the former case, the bevel is still very flat, and the very edge within reach of a few light laps on your Naniwa 12K. In the latter case, the bevel might be a slight bit convex, rendering the very edge out of reach of the 12K.

Were the razors honed with tape on the spine or not? If so, honing without tape on fine grits won't do much good, since the very edge won't be touching the hone's surface. Of course you could apply tape, no matter what, and hone on the 12K. You could end up creating a second bevel, but that does no harm.

All theory aside, here's what I would do:

Take the razor that was worst to begin with. Apply 2 layers of electrical insulation tape to its spine (yes, 2 because that will tip the razor on its very edge, regardless the prior honing job). Soak up the 12K in water for 15 minutes and perform about 20 light X-strokes.
This will create a very keen secondary bevel at the very edge of your razor, carrying only scratches of the 12K, which should provide a very smooth, clean shave.
Strop the razor well, and compare how it shaves now to how the other one shaves (the one you have not honed).

If there is serious improvement, that surely answers the "shaveready" question. If not, you could still try stropping that razor on CrO (reapply the tape). If that doesn't bring it up to speed, I would send them out.
I would not work on both razors the same time. Try to make one surpass the other. That will tell you more than loosing track on them both.

Good luck,
Bart.

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That sounds like an great plan. Will definitely give me a basis of comparison between the two... it'll allow me to dip my toe a little futher into the honing waters... and yet still keep prevent me from being knocking the edge so far out of whack that it wouldn't be easily brought back into shape by an experienced honemeister if need be.

Will give it shot either this evening or tomorrow (depending on whether the weather gives me the chance to squeeze one more cycle ride in later today before putting the bike up for the winter) and post back with a 'Yay, thanks.' or 'On no, please help.' in a couple of days.

Agree with all! Keening up an edge is the reverse of honing to me. I go in reverse from leather strop to felt to CroX to Escher to 13K etc. Move in reverse until I get the edge restored. The first thing that came to mind from your post was your stropping technique. Been there and had to have 5 new blades keened up before I figured out my stropping technique was rolling my edges - too loose on the strop and the leather is able to hit the edge at an angle that will bend it ever so slightly.

Well, by means of Bart's well thought test along with a bit of experiment during another shave I've come to the conclusion is was a combination of blade sharpness, blade angle, and pressure.

After setting a second bevel by honing with two layers of tape followed by a few passes on CrOx balsa strop, then careful normal stopping I felt a signficant reduction in pulling and less irritation.

Then, on the next shave I also made a VERY focused attempt to use as little force and pressure as possible to make the blade move and expermented with very acute anges (spine practically against skin), as well as some that were a bit more obtuse than 30 degrees.

It made a BIG difference and was a VERY educational experience. Much, much smoother shave after 3 passes and rather than my entire neck, the only area that got a little irritated was the spot where two directions of grain meet.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

You received some great advice and I'm glad it's working better for you. If I would have caught you prior to you trying to improve the edge (it appears that your efforts were successful) I would have recommended stropping on newspaper afixed and taped down over one of your stones for 50-100 passes. To me that would tune the edge to the best of its honed ability. If you found a very noticeable improvement, then you could judge that something/s other than the edge were at play in the problems.

Chris L