BBW versus Coticule

I just ordered a Coticule. My previous honing routine was 10 slurry laps on a BBW, 10 water laps on a BBW, 10 water laps on a Swatty, 30 laps on a chrome-ox strop. This seemed to provide good results on one of my razors (I screwed the other up using too much pressure).

Now I'm adding a yellow to the mix. Is there any point continuing with the BBW? I'm trying to just touch them up once a month. Once my other razor comes back, that should be about every 15 shaves (I try to alternate between my two).

thx

-Mike

If all you wanted to do was to touch them up all you ever needed was the Swaty. If you are doing a little edge restoration the coticule will be a perfect partner with the BBW.

True, but what he is asking is - is there any point to the BBW if he also acquires a coticule?

I dont think there is. Some would argue there is no need for any other hones if he had a coticule. I personally do not believe that a BBW offers any benefits that a coticule can not. Im hoping others may chime in as I have limited experience with both stones.

I recommend that you go onto Bart's website and have a read about the 'Unicot' method of honing.

Welcome to Coticule.be - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If all you wanted to do was to touch them up all you ever needed was the Swaty. If you are doing a little edge restoration the coticule will be a perfect partner with the BBW.

---

I agree with Kelly, for touch up's, all you need is your Swaty.
IMHO, Honing your razors every month seems excessive to me.
Every time you take a blade to the rocks, you leave steel behind.
3-5 lapps on a Swaty before you shave is enough....

A BBW is a 4000 grit hone. If you can take care of all your razors with just a Coticule, then go for it....My hat's off to you...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zib

I agree with Kelly, for touch up's, all you need is your Swaty.
IMHO, Honing your razors every month seems excessive to me.
Every time you take a blade to the rocks, you leave steel behind.
3-5 lapps on a Swaty before you shave is enough....

A BBW is a 4000 grit hone. If you can take care of all your razors with just a Coticule, then go for it....My hat's off to you...

---

Mr Swaty removes steel too. The BBW is very slow, even with slurry, so it's not as if he's removing a lot of steel there. Yes, I do think it sounds like he's honing more than necessary, but I wouldn't say he's going to wear out his razor all that fast...

BBW is 4k? If that's so, then I've had some very comfortable shaves off a 4k hone. I don't know what the grit size of a BBW is, but I think the edge it produces is much finer and smoother than one can get from a 4k hone.

In response to the OP: I have a BBW and a Coti, and I go from either my King 1k or my Aoto (estimated at 1-3k, but no idea if that's JIS or Norton equivalent) to the BBW with slurry -> dilution -> coti with water. I probably could go straight to the coti with slurry and dilute, but I'd rather wear down my BBW and preserve my coti as much as possible since the coti is vintage and even new coti's are more expensive. Ultimately, you'll have to experiment and find what works best for you - there's more than one way to hone a razor...

If I am honing with a coticule my usual routine is to set the bevel on a 1k stone and then do some laps on the bbw with slurry as Bart describes in the Wiki. Then I go to the yellow with water. I've also done Bart's bevel setting with a coticule. It works but I prefer the speed of the Naniwa 1k. I've got it so I may as well use it. I've also honed up through the 1k, 4k and 8k with synthetic stones and finished on a hard coticule with water. Versitle stone and I think the bbw compliments it if they are used together.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Mr Swaty removes steel too. The BBW is very slow, even with slurry, so it's not as if he's removing a lot of steel there. Yes, I do think it sounds like he's honing more than necessary, but I wouldn't say he's going to wear out his razor all that fast...

BBW is 4k? If that's so, then I've had some very comfortable shaves off a 4k hone. I don't know what the grit size of a BBW is, but I think the edge it produces is much finer and smoother than one can get from a 4k hone.

In response to the OP: I have a BBW and a Coti, and I go from either my King 1k or my Aoto (estimated at 1-3k, but no idea if that's JIS or Norton equivalent) to the BBW with slurry -> dilution -> coti with water. I probably could go straight to the coti with slurry and dilute, but I'd rather wear down my BBW and preserve my coti as much as possible since the coti is vintage and even new coti's are more expensive. Ultimately, you'll have to experiment and find what works best for you - there's more than one way to hone a razor...

---

That's what I hear Lee, 4k, from the quarry. I'd say it performs higher, maybe 6k....I agree with you, The Swaty does remove steel, but 3 lapps VS. an entire honing session every month is a little much. Also, my point being that a 4K is a good hone, I guess there's been some statements made on Bart's site that they're are worthless, not true IMHO...

I guess my assumption was that a coticule with water would give a nicer edge than a swatty as a polishing stone. I suppose I could conduct an experiment with my two razors.

Good advice, I do think I have been going overboard on the honing.

And in any case they'll come in use if I finally decide to try to hone for real and purchase something from Ebay that needs re-bevel (of course then I'd need something in the 1k range).

Also, I kind of like the idea of using natural whetstones over synthetics. Not sure why.

In all honesty, my advice would be to focus on your stropping. Do it right and the trips to the hone will become rarer. As to your question, I like both (much as JimmyHAD), it kind of depends on your coticule, but personally I prefer the edge that it gives to a barber's hone. In fact, I quickly refresh on the barber's (c. 4 strokes) and then finish on a coticule (about ten). YMMV. The yellow coticule's strength is in its versatility but it's a natural stone and they do vary. Good luck and as Lynn says, have fun.

A BBW with light slurry may be 4k but with water it's definately more like 6-8k. Swaty's come in different grit ratings, mine happens to be as coarse as my BBW, I assume others may be as smooth as a coticule or smoother. It's something you will have to find out for yourself.

If you plan to use slurry on your coticule, it can replace your BBW and your swaty if that happens to be coarser than your coticule. You can also use your coticule with water only and just add the stone to your progression. Why not just put all the stones you have to good use and not wear you out your coticule as 'fast'.

They never wear out! Literally

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scipio

They never wear out! Literally

---

Oh yes they do (some of the ones that I've seen, you wouldn't believe), but they do take a very very long time to do so. Bought one today that (I think) my great grand children can use (yippee).

Ok, but u would have to use it one hell of alot, ie. on a daily basis to do so. They dont wear out as quickly as Shaptons or Naniwas for example.

I'm sure a coticule would last me a life time. I have had blues and yellows i personaly think you can shave of blue no problem . I have to say i only use my coticule nower days and my blue came redundant so i sold them. The only differance i noticed is the blue is slower cutter than the yellow when used with slurry . i can set a bevel with dmt 1200 or norton 1k and easily do the rest with coticule i can even set abevel on my coti as it cuts very fast with a good slurry i would have to say you realy don't need the blue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrMike

I just ordered a Coticule. My previous honing routine was 10 slurry laps on a BBW, 10 water laps on a BBW, 10 water laps on a Swatty, 30 laps on a chrome-ox strop. This seemed to provide good results on one of my razors (I screwed the other up using too much pressure).

Now I'm adding a yellow to the mix. Is there any point continuing with the BBW? I'm trying to just touch them up once a month. Once my other razor comes back, that should be about every 15 shaves (I try to alternate between my two).

thx

-Mike

---

Hi Mike,

If I understand you correctly, your use your hones maintain sharpness on well-honed razors. That is a very good approach, provided that your beard doesn't tear microscopical chips off the razor's edge. With some beards (mine :() on some razors that happens, and those require re-honing eventually. But other razors only demand occasional touch-ups, and if you do that on a hone, you could practically go on forever.
With the procedure you described, I'm fairly sure you could leave out the BBW (hence just the barrberhone and CrO) and you would never notice the difference with your original routine. Not because a BBW is a worthless hone, but because it's just redundant in that procedure.

With your future Coticule, you should be able to do 30-50 laps on water, instead of the using the barber hone. If you don't wait too long in between touch-ups, you could probably just skip the CrO as well.

Whether you use the Swatty or the Coticule to re-awake the edge, if you follow with 30 laps CrO, there will be no difference in the final edge.

The BBW puzzles me. I don't really like it for finishing on water (although they're not all the same). With a very light slurry, the finish seems better and it's a good stone to get a keen edge, yet it acts very slow. 10 laps will get you nowhere. I think, that with the right procedure, a BBW can possibly yield excellent edges. It has the potential for being one of the most cost-effective options to get a very good edge. At least, that's what I hope to find with a series of upcoming experiments dedicated to the BBW.

Bottom line: in my opinion with purchasing a Coticule, you're not extending your touch-up procedure, but you are expanding your arsenal of possibilities for that task.
And you bought a hone that will allow you do to much more than touch-ups.

Best regards,
Bart.