Have you worn down a razor?

All this talk about taping or not taping and effects on edge geometry in addition to talk about "if you hone than much you'll wear down your razor" have me very curious. Here is my question:

Have you ever noticeably worn down a razor under "normal*" usage?

Why am I curious? Well, I don't use any one razor much, so I can't tell on my own. I don't think retouching removes much steel at all. I don't think any one person (aside from maybe a barber) will noticeably wear a razor during their lifetime (much less a user with many razors). I don't really think taping or not taping will have a significant effect on the edge geometry (aside from the initial change due to adding tape) because I can't imagine the edge being worn down all that much. I don't think a few extra laps on a hone every month matters, even if you drop down to an 8k or equivalent.

That's what I think, but I don't actually know.

* By normal usage I mean normal upkeep without damaging the edge. For example, you buy a razor new or in good condition (little wear) and shave with it every day, honing as necessary to keep the edge keen, that counts. If you ding you edge and have to hone out a dent or chip, that DOES NOT count in this poll.

Under normal upkeep? I voted no.

It could be measured I suppose. Sharpen a razor, measure it's height. Give it 4-5 laps on a fine barber hone, measure it's height again at the same point. Now we need someone with access to the right equipment.

Even a micrometer with a super light thumb-spindle would likely damage the edge during the measurement. Would probably need a very fine optical comparator or coordinate table of high resolution. I believe that light touch-up would remove on the order of 0.0001"; or maybe even less.

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Originally Posted by Sticky

Under normal upkeep? I voted no.

It could be measured I suppose. Sharpen a razor, measure it's height. Give it 4-5 laps on a fine barber hone, measure it's height again at the same point. Now we need someone with access to the right equipment.

Even a micrometer with a super light thumb-spindle would likely damage the edge during the measurement. Would probably need a very fine optical comparator or coordinate table of high resolution. I believe that light touch-up would remove on the order of 0.0001"; or maybe even less.

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Maybe I should have been more clear, but I wouldn't consider that wearing down a razor.

I've not used one individual razor on a regular enough basis to say. OTOH, I have a razor that I got from a barber who used it for decades..... among others. It has some hone wear but it is still real good. I am at work and will post a photo ASAP. He is long gone but I do know that he honed his razors on a coticule and touched up on a Swaty from time to time.

What I did do when I decided to hone without tape on a regular basis ... a couple of months ago ... was take a NOS Solingen razor and measure the spine with a micrometer. Not the blade angle but the thickness of the spine.

I did a bevel set with a 1k and then a pyramid as in Lynn's method in the Wiki. All with Naniwa superstones. I got the razor shave ready and then measured it again and there was no difference in the measurement afterwards. Of course over time there would be and not everyone's hand is the same but that is what went down with that one.

No No NO !!!!

Oh BTW I don't think so, No...

If I told you once, I told you a thousand time No !!!!

:):):)

OK I had flashbacks of when I was a kid.. LOL



So the question begs to be answered, why do we see so many with extreme wear...

You have to look at the old used hones, for the answer, look at the weird wear patterns we see on those...I think that tells you where the wear patterns come from on the razors....

I honestly think we are just slightly more fanatical about our razors and our hones...
We need to see what happens if somebody uses the old ways to shave,,,
Little to no stropping and daily use of an un-lapped barber's hone, maybe then we could see the heavy wear ...

Volunteers????


Edit: Jimmy just reminded me that I should qualify my statements,, Although now I have a large rotation, from 1981-about 2000 I had only 2 razors, 1 strop, and 1 stone.... I did NOT wear them out, I drooped them both finally...

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Maybe I should have been more clear, but I wouldn't consider that wearing down a razor.

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Neither would I.

EDIT: Actually, I used to know a man who used 4 straights almost continuously for over 40 years. When he passed on, his son (my Uncle) got those razors. The hone wear on them was very slight. They all looked brand new.

@Glen

// memory lane on
I can tell you how Grandpa did it. He was born around 1901, and he used to say he shaved the same way his Dad did. He stropped on leather before every shave, 50 to maybe 150 laps. I used to get up when he did and prepare his Williams or Old Spice lather. I never saw him use anything else. Correction: he would use Ivory soap if the other stuff ran out. It rarely did.

He had 2 strops. One with leather and canvas and had some black stuff on the back of the leather. The second was leather only with a pattern and some green stuff on the back of it. I never saw him use the canvas on a razor (he did use it just once on me, and several times on his own kids).

His razor hones were a carborundum combination, Norton India combination (I still have it), a soft Arkansas, a Norton Surgical Black slip, a Norton Pink Translucent slip, 3 barber hones (one was a C-Mon), and the ever-present newspaper. He flattened some of his hones on a concrete block. The harder ones (most of them were too hard for the block) were flattened on a cast iron lapping plate with fine abrasive in the machine shop in the garage.

Two of his 3 brothers had an almost identical set-up in their bathrooms. No idea what the 3rd brother used.
// memory lane off

my seond razor was w&b ebay product.i didnt have hones except knife hones.i tried make this blade shave ready.took me 2 days agressive honing to end life of the w&b. Then i realize i am doing something wrong.that's how smart i was 5 years ago.since that experiment never worn down any blade .

If you were to shave with the same blade every day & keep that razor in shave ready condition I suspect it would take decades to make a noticeable difference.
If only we had just one member who would be prepared to use a single razor for decades, & we could prevent them developing the usual disorder, we could monitor it! :D

I think Glen hit it right on.If you had nothing but an un-lapped barber hone(what would they lap it with?)and a strop,you would put considerably more spine wear on your razors than we do now with our 16-30,000 grit finishers and .25 micron sprays and pastes on intermediary strops.So the way we do it now,I don't think we could wear one out.
The question that begs to be asked now is"can you make your razor uglier without tape?"

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Originally Posted by ben.mid

If you were to shave with the same blade every day & keep that razor in shave ready condition I suspect it would take decades to make a noticeable difference.
If only we had just one member who would be prepared to use a single razor for decades, & we could prevent them developing the usual disorder, we could monitor it! :D

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:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

Safe to say that Razor Monogomy is not a virtue of the members of SRP.:boohoo:

No. The only visible hone wear I have on any razor is the one I tried to learn to hone on and purposely applied uneven pressure. No other razors I have used even show hone wear.

I believe a lot of the cupping we see in barbers hones was created on purpose during the transition to safety razors. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with straights at all.

Nope, not even on the numerous restores I honed. I have been known to tape on rare occasions to speed up honing like on wedges. No tape for me unless I would be honing a good portion of the side of the razor. I hate taping!

I wasn't really interested in anything about how so much wear gets on some old razors - I'm quite sure that is due to "different" honing techinques and non-flat hones.

I was more curious because, in discussions about taping, there have been lots of posts where people have said things like "as the blade is honed more, the change in the angle will become more dramatic" - but if no one (aside from those so far) has ever actually worn down a razor from normal use, that argument about taping seems, to me, invalid.

It seems to me that, for taping, the only real change in the bevel angle is the initial change the taping causes - after that, assuming only normal honing is needed (nothing else should be needed, right?), if the razor is not worn down (and this poll suggests it won't be), there will be little to no change in the blade width and therefore little to no change in the bevel angle.

I had hinted in a previous thread about taping that I would post a poll like this, Jimmy (I think it was Jimmy) said I should, so here it is.

EDIT: Here is a link to the post where Jimmy quoted my post http://straightrazorpalace.com/485569-post13.html

Also, for those of you who have worn down a razor, how long did it take, and what is "normal honing" for you?

Here is a razor that I've had since the mid '80s. It was bought by a barber in Madison, NJ in the 1920s. He was 99 years old and was the oldest barber still working in the USA and probably the world when I went to his shop and bought this for $20.00. It was part of his rotation and he honed on a coticule. I have honed it once with tape and recently without tape. Great shave BTW. I have no idea how many times he would have honed this razor but it must have been many over the decades that he used it. His name was Alex Micah and he was written up in newspapers up that way at the time. He passed away at 100 or 101 years old IIRC. Another BTW, he told me that it was no good to live too long but that is for another thread.