norton 8k dilemma

I purchased a Robuso 6/8 full hollow not shave ready. I have been shaving for 47 years, but honing only for eight months. So, I honed the Robuso razor with my honing method, started with Norton 4k, King 6k, Norton 8k, Naniwa 10k, Naniwa 12k, CR O2, cotton strop, latigo and horsehide with a slurry stone in every step. Since I have all these stones and strops there is no reason to waste them. I know is not necessary to use all of these stone! The result was a great shave, but with an aggressive edge. A friend told me to go back to the Norton 8k for about six to seven passes and strop it again. The result was even a better shave, from a 9+ to a 10 or 10+ shave. My question is why? Inform me. Juan

Im fairly new to all this, but could it be you managed to get the razor too sharp?!! so sharp that it bites the skin?

I've been doing a tonne of research into hones (without actually using them myself - just from reviews and articles, and it looks to me that if you want the most comfortable shave, you should go with a belgian coticule. Due to the nature of how this stone abrades, the edge it produces is smoother than from other stones (the other stones leave a kind of serrated edge i believe).

Another benefit of the coticule is it can be used for bevel correction aswell, all the way up through to finishing. The workhorse of stones!!

Check out bart's website on them www.coticule.be

I too am still pretty new to it - particularly honing. However, if I recall correctly from all the research I did before my first attempt at honing, you can indeed go too sharp - so to speak (particularly with synthetic hones 12k and under if I remember right)...

Unless I'm mistaken, if the edge becomes too fine it can actually fold or warp (in the sense that it can get a little wavy along its length) on a microscopic level, thereby causing a tad bit of discomfort. I believe this is why many experienced str8 users say the best shaves from a razor actually come roughly 6-10 shaves in after honing. A few sessions of shaving and stropping take away that microscopic folding and/or waviness along the edge - as would a few light strokes on an 8k.

Hopefully some of the honemeisters will chime and confirm or debunk this theory.

Personally, I don't think a razor can, after going through your progression, be "too sharp" - but I could be wrong there. To me, "too sharp" is a term relative to your technique. Consider an extreme case - if you "shave" with a razor at a 90 degree angle to your face and press down hard, my idea of "shave ready" will be "too sharp" for you. Likewise, if I pick up a razor that Lynn has honed (and I have) and I shave with the right prep, good lather, good angle and overall technique, but a touch too much pressure, I will get razor burn. I could say "Lynn, that razor was too sharp," and he could say "Dylan, you pressed too hard." And I could say, "I prefer the edge off hone X because it is 'smoother,' " and he could say "If you 'improved' your technique, you'd love the razor I honed for you."

It's all relative to you, your technique, and what makes you happy.

Then again, I'm not sure that's what's going on with your razor and your shave, I'd probably have to shave with the razor and watch you shave with it to get a good idea.

How many passes did you do initially on the 8-12k series & how many on CrO ??
Just guessing, but maybe you overhoned & had a wire edge that was then removed by the 8k..

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Originally Posted by juannaredo

I purchased a Robuso 6/8 full hollow not shave ready. I have been shaving for 47 years, but honing only for eight months. So, I honed the Robuso razor with my honing method, started with Norton 4k, King 6k, Norton 8k, Naniwa 10k, Naniwa 12k, CR O2, cotton strop, latigo and horsehide with a slurry stone in every step. Since I have all these stones and strops there is no reason to waste them. I know is not necessary to use all of these stone! The result was a great shave, but with an aggressive edge. A friend told me to go back to the Norton 8k for about six to seven passes and strop it again. The result was even a better shave, from a 9+ to a 10 or 10+ shave. My question is why? Inform me. Juan

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There is your problem,, never use a slurry after the bevel setting stage period... you just don't need it, not with those stones... I would drop the 6k and the 10k out of the mix for right now too, just to simplify..
I also think the OZ man might be right, depending on your count and the pressure used, overhoning is hard to do, but with the slurry you might have....

Also I think all of you are confusing sharp and smooth, a razor can be both, but it takes talent and practice...
When it come to getting that combination it is the hand, not the stones that make it happen...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is your problem,, never use a slurry after the bevel setting stage period... you just don't need it, not with those stones... I would drop the 6k and the 10k out of the mix for right now too, just to simplify..
I also think the OZ man might be right, depending on your count and the pressure used, overhoning is hard to do, but with the slurry you might have....

Also I think all of you are confusing sharp and smooth, a razor can be both, but it takes talent and practice...
When it come to getting that combination it is the hand, not the stones that make it happen...

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+1

I was eating a grapefruit last night and I used a small kitchen knife to separate the fruit from the web if that makes any sense. One knife cut right through the web the other would slide along the web freeing the juicy bits... That one I had been playing with a Chinese polishing stone on to see how the stone acts....

I think the key to shaving is to find the very fine balance between the edge that cuts whiskers and not the face. Since we all have different faces that "best" shave has a different balance point for each of us.

To some degree I believe the effect the OP is seeing is why the pyramid method and a light touch works for so many. It makes no sense for polishing telescope mirrors but it works for razors.

"Too sharp" is highly unlikely. An aggressive edge is more likely to be overhoning, or lack of quality laps in the later stages.
Don't try to use every hone you have, just because you can. I find that some my razors respond slightly differently to the various hones, & tend to use these razors on the individual hones I can get better edges off.

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Originally Posted by juannaredo

Since I have all these stones and strops there is no reason to waste them. I know is not necessary to use all of these stone! The result was a great shave, but with an aggressive edge. A friend told me to go back to the Norton 8k for about six to seven passes and strop it again. The result was even a better shave, from a 9+ to a 10 or 10+ shave. My question is why? Inform me. Juan

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I don't know the answer to your question but your mentioning that you have all of the stones so you may as well use them brings another thing to my mind. I had the same situation of having a series of stones and automatically going through the progression because they were there and I thought I was supposed to.

Randydance told me to hone up until the 8k and then test shave. If I wasn't getting the razor sharp enough to get a good shave at the 8k level going beyond that was only masking my honing deficiencies and wasting time.

To my surprise I found that a shave off of an 8k is a mighty fine shave. I do this routinely now before I move up the ladder in polishing with the higher grits. It is interesting to see if I am consistently delivering the goods with my honing.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't know the answer to your question but your mentioning that you have all of the stones so you may as well use them brings another thing to my mind. I had the same situation of having a series of stones and automatically going through the progression because they were there and I thought I was supposed to.

Randydance told me to hone up until the 8k and then test shave. If I wasn't getting the razor sharp enough to get a good shave at the 8k level going beyond that was only masking my honing deficiencies and wasting time.

To my surprise I found that a shave off of an 8k is a mighty fine shave. I do this routinely now before I move up the ladder in polishing with the higher grits. It is interesting to see if I am consistently delivering the goods with my honing.

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Excellent idea. I've a couple I need to hone and I'll try it.

i really like the edge i get off my norton 8k even tho i have a chosara 10k

i am still learning how to get the best use out of that 10k but till then i go up to the wet 10 then a few light passes over the dry norton8k
but hey thats jsut me
im thinking that while its a 10k it might be a bit aggressive for razors (is a sword hone from what i understand )

At this point if you have a honing formula that works for you, let me know I can work with it. I tried the pyramid, I could not make it work for me. I need a simple honing formula. Juan

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Originally Posted by juannaredo

At this point if you have a honing formula that works for you, let me know I can work with it. I tried the pyramid, I could not make it work for me. I need a simple honing formula. Juan

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Here is an archived post by gssixgun with an alternative method using the Norton 4/8. :gl:

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Originally Posted by juannaredo

At this point if you have a honing formula that works for you, let me know I can work with it. I tried the pyramid, I could not make it work for me. I need a simple honing formula. Juan

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No offense, but once you understand the pyramid (I got confused when I first looked at it on paper), it is both simple and consistant. If you can't get it to work, I would say that tells you more about your honing technique than it does about the pyramid.