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What is the opinion on the Translucent Arkansas stones? I have heard mixed opinions from extreme good to bad. They are pricey and generally used for surgical and dental instruments.
What is the difference between the Arkansas Surgical Black and the Arkansas Translucent. Between the two [if any] which one is more acceptable, and which is best?
Thanks in advance!!!!!!
Jim
FYI:
Link to some good quality translucents that were recommended to me:
http://www.hallsproedge.com/wide_bench_stones.htm#5
Jim,
Well........the one that would be the best is the Norton 4k/8k <g>. Or one of the yellow Belgians.
Some get great results from the Arkansas stones but most will direct you to the Nortons.
Tony
I have to second Tony's comment. The 3" wide Norton 4000/8000 waterstone
beats the Arkansas stones hands down when applied to straight razors.
The yellow natural Belgian coticule stone may be one of the best finishing stones but I use the natural Chinese 12000 grit for my razors.
Forget the Arkansas stones. They are very slow cutting and not anywhere near fine enough for a truely keen razor's edge.
Just my two cents,
Holy Cow - was I off one this one! :hmmm:
Really! This one caused me to do double-take!!! I was WAY off on this one I guess!
Norton it IS.
The Arkansas translucent in the link, at least the 12"x3"x1 was $263.00. I didn't mind paying out for a good stone as long as its top of the line...
Do you guys have a favorite vendor or website for the Nortons?
OH, and a recommedation to a website or vendor for one of the yellow Belgians. I am ex-military and can put an edge on a Gerber or bayonette that would bring tears to your eyes, but I dont want to touch my Dovo with nothing but the best and knowing what the heck I am doing.
Thanks!!!!!!
Jim
PS. Also... (unless you already do and I could not find it....) you should put up a small fact sheet as a major stationary hyperlink on your site about stones.
Recommendations of vendors, websites, grit, manufacturers, directions on using, stay away froms, important notes, etc.
Its probably moot at this point, but in the hierarchy of arkansas stones, translucent is finer than surgical black. Although randy is right, arkansas probably arent in the caliber of fineness one needs to sharpen straight razors.
For ther Norton try Ray at www.classicshaving.com or if you have a Woodcraft store near you they stock it.
For ther Belgian try Howard at www.theperfectedge.com
Tony
WOW! THANKS X1,000,000...... I hit paydirt!
Went to your recommended site, www.theperfectedge.com. VERY nice! I did a google search for Belgian yellows and got very little. The best I found was at: http://pacifi.ca/Temp/BBPrice.html. Perfect Edge was MUCH better.
Definatly getting the 8"x3" yellow [in the 8000 grit].
Thinking about getting the 8"x3" blue for the 4000 grit need too - since a Norton 4000/8000 grit stone was recommended as a possible option. Your thoughts?
Norton 4000 cuts a bit faster than the Blue coticule (so they say). If you want the best stones available, you might check the Shapton Pro series. So, you are all set with the Norton 4/8K, Yellow belgian or Shapton Pro 12000.
Nenad
Wow. Another contender. It was a nice website! Impressive grit sizes and apps.
Group thoughts? Comments?
The Belgian yellow coticule is in the class of hones referred to as finishing hones. In this class is also the Shapton and the Chinese natural waterstone 12000 grit available from woodcraft.com.
The Belgian blue is not used by many of us because it is very slow cutting.
The progression we use is medium grit 4000, fine 8000 and then a finishing hone, either the Belgian yellow, the Shapton or the Chinese 12000.
To remove nicks from a blade we use a 1000 grit. Either a stone or sandpaper.
An alternative to a finishing stone is an abrasive pasted paddle strop. We apply abrasive pastes to a piece of leather that is glued to a wood base.
Tony Miller at www.thewellshavedgentleman.com has thes available for sale as does www.classicshaving.com
Thats the simplest explanation. The grit of the abrasive pastes ranges from coarse to ultra fine. A number of us use a finishing stone and then follow that with the abrasive pasted paddle strops. Some go directly from an 8000 stone to the abrasive pasted paddle strop and it works just fine.
If I were to do it over again I would buy the 3 inch wide Norton 4000/8000 stone and a two sided paddle strop. On the paddle strop I would apply 1.0 micron and 0.5 micron water based synthetic diamond abrasive pastes.
Ray at www.classicshaving has the diamond pastes.
Please go to the help files and read everything there, especially the honing section and also look at the video section. Sharpening a knife is very different than sharpening a straight razor. There are a number of guys here who will attest to that.
BTW, Welcome to the SRP group!:)
Hope this helps,
Since part of the original question was regarding the difference between translucent and black Arkansas stones, I’ll address that subject first. The reason being that I’m sure someone will have a very similar question in the near future.
Essentially, there is NO difference in translucent and black Arkansas stones. Both are at the top of Arkansas grading scale being referred to as “extra fine” and are more accurately referred to as “true hard Arkansas”.
Arkansas, being a naturally occurring stone, occurs in many different colors including shades of white, grays/shades of blue-gray, and even pink (yes pink). Even a very choice cut stone will usually have veins or swirls or patches of other “colorations” in them.
One cannot determine the actual grit of the hone based ONLY on the color. So it’s imperative that if your dropping good money for a high end piece of Arkansas your buying it from a reputable source.
I would not encourage anyone to use Arkansas as a razor hone, however they HAVE been used in the past. The advise given previously is wise and given out of experience. To avoid undue headache, follow it accordingly <g>.
However, should you, or anyone else, be interested in good Arkansas hones, I’ll post a link to a good source below this paragraph. I don’t seen a problem in using medium or hard Arkansas for removing nicks or heavy initial profiling of an abused razor, just not as a finishing hone. You’ll need something more fine, and more consistent (i.e. Nortons and Coticule)
Arkansas Grades
You’ll notice I linked to the page explaining the grading of Arkansas with chart for approximate grit grade comparison.
Testing another couple of links
http://tinyurl.com/bss73 (Blue Belgian test 1)
http://tinyurl.com/bvxmd (Blue Belgian test 2)
AhHAAaa... finally got them to work.. those are test's using the blue Belgan hones by the way haha... enjoy!
Kelly,
They ar great links! You wouldn't happen to have a link to a site that would teach us to read German would you?? <g>
Tony
Haha ... :D
Teach you, no I’m afraid I don’t. However if those links were screwed up (i.e. in German) you can use any one of your favorite web translators ( I use BabelFish) or I can try again, I don’t know if they come up in English because they are saved in my cache or if they were working properly. Let me know if I need to work a little harder ;)
Learn German in no time:)
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
3 quick questions...
1) The Shapton Pro series http://www.shaptonstones.com/stones/...nal-Series.php goes from 8,000 - 15,000 grit. I would assume 15,000 is acceptable?
(Or, is that too big of a jump from at Belgian yellow 8,000 to a Shapton 15,000)
2) Where is a good site to find a Chinese waterstone at the 12,000 grit you recommend? If I can't find a good Chinese waterstone, my plan was to go with the Shapton Pro 15,000.
Now about a 4,000 grit:
I have a very light beard and take excellent care to the blades. My razor steels are top of the line.
3) Other than corrective maintenance on a blade that I may have purchased used, is there a need for a 4,000 grit? Or - do I just need to shut-up and get the Norton 4000/8000 and be done with it? :rolleyes:
Thanks!
1. The Shapton Pro 15K is not only acceptable, but highly desirable... btw, belgian blue coticule is the coarser side, the yellow coticule is about 10-12K...
2. You can find it here , good price, too ~$30...
3. shit happens, get the larger 4/8K combo stone.
Nenad
oooppps.
Meant to say yellow. I edited [it] and changed blue to yellow.
Thanks! Anyone else have a thought to this?