Thread: The case of the disapearing bevel......

I have been working on getting my first razor honed. I thought I had the bevel set but am starting to realize that I did not. I started out on my nortons up through a couple pyramids up to 8k then jumped to a couple jnats when I thought I had the bevel set but I have been on the Jnats for quite a while now and have noticed that my bevel is getting smaller and smaller, slowly though I might add. I have really been enjoying myself so I really havent been in a big enough hurry to drop back down to a lower grit hone and instead have been playing with different slurries on different Jnats and have really been enjoying myself experimenting and at the same time getting loads of time practicing my honing stroke without causing too much wear to the razor, I hope. I am noticing something happening with the razor and am wondering if I am coming to the right conclusion or not. When buying vintage razors and honing them up to usefulness is it neccesary to figure out what kind of stroke the previous owner used to sharpen the razor. The reason I am asking is at first I thought my spine was warped slightly but now it seems that the edge is bent, like the previous owner used excessive pressure on one side at both ends, the heel and toe, and caused the edge to have a slight warp to it. I was trying the swinging x-stroke at first when I thought it was the spine that was warped and that helped a little bit but I noticed that I could do a regular x-stroke but at the toe and heel I need to twist the blade slightly towards the edge(keeping the spine on the stone) to get the whole edge to make contact during a stroke. I have read enough here to know that I should use the least amount of pressure as possible to get a good sharp edge, but is it sometimes neccesary to use a little pressure because the previous owner has used pressure and the razor has adapted to his stroke, or is it just that I havent gotten the bevel right and the ends will eventually come into contact with the stone? If it matters, it is a shoulderless french point boker and I guess maybe 1/2 or 3/4 hollow. If I sit the spine on a newly lapped stone it looks to be sitting flat all the way across, but the edge does not. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or criticisms.

Hm... Not sure I understand what you are referring to by the bevel dissapearing. Do you mean that the bevel is literally going away, or that it is not holding an edge? I think some pics of said razor would be helpful in us determining a solution.

The bevel is just shrinking, like it is just getting more refined, not really disappearing. The edge is looking good and smooth no chips or deteriation to speak of, just having trouble with getting the whole edge to sharpen without using some pressure(twisting action) at the heel and toe on one side. I could get some pics but I dont know if my camera is good enough to get pics that will show anything specifically, other than some glare. Wish I had one of those usb microscopes. Thanks.

Hm... Are you using tape on the spine? Is the bevel dissapearing only in the middle? Sounds like you may need to implement a rolling x stroke...

When you say you've been on the Jnats for quite a while, how long are you talking about?

You shouldn't have to put any pressure once you get to that stage.

It does sound like you don't have the bevel set, and I would probably go back down to the 1k level until it was set the full length of the edge.

It's hard to tell what you're dealing with without pictures. Work on the bevel until the whole length passes the TNT, then move up to the finer hones. If you are having trouble with certain sections of the edge not touching the hone, you may need to try the "rolling x-stroke" described in the wiki.

Also, what hones are you using, and have they been lapped flat?

Hope this helps a little

I havent really been keeping track of how long but I would say about 5 hrs at least, probably more. I started with a jnat that had inclusions causing me some problems, went to another 330mate jnat which also had some tricky areas, then I got a shobu pale purple jnat and finally a naratuki jnat from alex. The first two have been set aside till I get more skill at stone manipulation but the last two seem to be great stones, the shobu leaves a hazy finish the other a fine mirror finish. I do realize I moved up a little early but have seen posts that it is possible to do the unicot or dilucot methods on any natural finisher,it just takes time and that is one thing I have plenty of at the moment.

Heres the requested pics, hope they help.

whats your progression up to 8k?
Also do you have a loupe or a scope to follow your bevel progression after each stone? If you can look @ the bevel at each grit you can get a lot of valuable info on what is happening.

I started on the 220 norton, which was overkill as there werent any chips or anything, then the 1000 until it shaved my arm, but I think I only checked the center of the bevel. Then I did 2 full pyramids on the 4/8k hones and then went to my first Jnat, I soon realized that I had moved up too early, as I was anxious to get to my jnat. Then I dropped back and did another pyramid on the 4/8k and moved on again. Went back up to the jnat and noticed that the water was shooting up over the edge, while honing, all the way along the edge except at the far ends. Thats when I switched to doing circles with a little pressure and a thick slurry on the shobu jnat. When I switched to a regular x-stroke I realized that just giving a slight twist at the beginning and end of my stroke kept the water blowing up and over the edge instead of pushing along in front of the edge. I do have one of those small radio shack microscopes but it is such a pain to keep on the edge I have switched to just watching the width of the bevel and trying to keep it the same on both sides of the edge, but I am going to go get a loupe today I think.

the scope is easier to use if you lay the razor on a surface.
If possible post pics of the blade before and after "disappearing", the razor on the pics above seems to have bevel.

Maybe try some black marker and 5-10 light laps on 8k or above. Just to see if the entire edge, on both sides, is getting equal hone time.