My New Hone

Well after much recent discussion about hone sizes and shapes, I finally took the plunge and took a saw to my Norton :eek:

I measured 6" from one end and made me a little mark with a scribe and then with an adjustable square traced the line the circumfrance of the hone and got out the little saw and went to work.

If anyone is thinking of doing this, do not underestimate the solid well made product that is a Norton water hone :nono: Ohhh noo... didn't go nearly as easily as I thought. The 4K side cut like butter (well, so to speak), but the 8K side was a real P.I.T.A. (pain in the a$$). Have a couple extra blades on hand because the one I started out with ended up with teeth much like your common house hold case/butter knife.

For those who elect this surgery, all I did (after scribing my line) was soak the hone in water for about 10min, then slowly and steady I cut the line on the "tag" side of the hone (so I ended up with a 6" primary and a 1, 3/8" scrap piece.. remember to account for the material loss during the cutting). I Did this on the kitchen counter so I could keep dunking the hone under running water to wash away the swarf. This helped keep the blade from binding and made the cut go smoothly. You'll know when there is a need for water because your blade with bind and squeek.

Once the cut was made, I used a disposable emory/nail file and running water to even out the cut, and place a bevel/radius on the newly formed sharp edge. I still need to take the end to some wet/dry and give it a good squaring off (my hand is not as steady as it used to be, and the saw is incredible difficult to control once you get deep in the material).

Here is the end result:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...al03/hone3.jpg

You can seem some of the dark marks from the saw on the 8K side, like I siad I still have some squaring off to do..

Here is the newly formed hone and my poor old DOVO for size compairison
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...al03/hone2.jpg

I'm sure this is entirely obvious from the other thread, and I don't mean to sound so dumb but. . . why?

Kelly,
What did you use for the saw? I was going to suggest a diamond blade like one uses for cutting tile. The diamond would cut the stone easily and the water cools and lubricates the blade.

May I ask why you felt a shorter stone would suit you better?

I kind of favor those a little les than th 3x8 myself. I like either 2X6 or 2x8 stones as it forces the X-pattern.

Tony

Can I have the section you didn't want? I want to taunt some guys with a "Norton Barber hone"

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm sure this is entirely obvious from the other thread, and I don't mean to sound so dumb but. . . why?

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two words will answer the "why": Prefrence and convenience

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

What did you use for the saw?

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Tony I used a jewelers hand saw, with a diamon wire at first. The wire I had on hand was was quite fine and old and was taking forever; so I switched to a traditional hack/steel style blade which worked much better (because it was new) but was pretty much whooped by half way through the 4K side.
If was to do this again, I'd just order a larger diameter new diamond wire and I have no doubt that would have worked 100%.

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

May I ask why you felt a shorter stone would suit you better?

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Several reasons to be honest but most can be summed up in the two word I offered Davis above . I happen to have very small hands, and for the delicate nature of the razor I perfer to hold my hone. So the 8x3 is a tad bulky and unbalanced in my hand. I can see Lynns appriciation for these as bench hones, since after all that is what they are, but my own history of sharpening has my hand trained to apply way too much pressure when using a bench hone. I also have a tendancy to want to lift the spine off the hone because Im so used to sharpening at 25-30 degrees for knife blades. So holding the hone is my perfered method.

I also agree with you that the shorter hone forces the user to use a more controlled even stroke and will make refrencing for the X patter much easier. The whole thing about the short Vs long hone issue is a matter of what you've forced your self into being comfortable with. I could continue using the Norton in it's full length, and force my self to overcome wanting to hold the hone and force my self into learning the proper stroke and pressure with the hone on a bench but if there is an easier (for me) way then why force an inssue. I can also write with my right hand because I was forced to at times.. but Im a damn site better with my left :D

I've also noticed that it fits much more nicely in the "manly man" drawer the wife has alotted me :shrug: in the bath room haha All in all.. I love the new size. I didnt cut the hone length wise because I just didnt feel a need or have the energy and I think I'll keep it at 3" since that extra inch wont matter enough to fool with.

A funny thing is, that when I got this hone, I had actually ordered the 8x2 hone which was cheaper.... and was sent the 8x3. At first i was happy because I came out a head... but now I wish I had in fact gotten the 2" hone :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Can I have the section you didn't want?

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Sorry Davis, the tag end has found a nice home with my little carving chisels where it will serve them well for touch ups :D

Hey, I thought that you are gonna split that Norton dead center lenghtwise??? When I was talking about sawing the Norton, I ment that way... I think the barber hones are more convinient about their width, not lenght. Well, maybe I will get my hones from Tilly soon, and see about that:) Anyways, Norton split lenghtwise AND across, and you get 4 nice little 4x1.5" barber hones...

Nenad

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Originally Posted by superfly

Hey, I thought that you are gonna split that Norton dead center lenghtwise???
Nenad

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Hey Nenad,
I had given that some thought, but I feel that the epoxy they use to secure the halves together is more than likely stronger than the hone it's self. After this little cut, I can say I am glad I didnt start to split that puppy the whole area because I'd still be sawing away haha...

I think the thicknes of each grit would make it a little difficult to hold since they are only 1/2" in the first place. I see tips of fingers getting in the way or the swell/heel of the palm making contact with the moving blade :eek:

Your going to ware down on the hone anyway over time. Water hones ware pretty fast, and with ony 1/2" to start with you'd end up with a thin, brittle little "cake" to hold on to. At least with them together, you'll have the support of lesser used side.

If you split one down the crack, I'd love to hear how that worked out :D

Kelly,
Thanks for your thoughts on the size issue. I had another thread about this last week as I am stocking Belgian stones and wanted to get options on what sizes most would want to see.
The 3x8 is a given and I will have a few 2x8 as well as I prefer that size. I will also be getting 2x6 since they are similar to a barber hone and could be handy in the bathroom for a few quick swipes when a razor starts to pull.
I have access to almost any size one would need.

I would like to see barber hone sized Nortons as well.

Tony

That's a really interesting question. Six months ago I would have stood strongly behind the 3x8 (that's imperial right? :D ). Since mucking round with the smaller barber hones has been terribly comfortable I'm leaning that way(specially if an I can, make 'em keen someday). The Little Devil might be a bit too small at 2x3.5 while the Honemaster is more comfortable at 2x4.375 (that IS imperial :D :D ). My Pike Norton barber hone is a more than big enough at 2.5x6.5 while Tony's pocket paddle is the most comfortable at 2.5x5. Ask me six months from now and I might say 2x5 would be my preferrence.

My question now is Blue, Yellow, Either or BOTH! I'll bet that yellow is fine for a final polish, but I get a great edge using such fine stones in combination with something a little more coarse. Speaking of which. What would eb the equivalent grit factor on the blue stone?

X

For those of you who have the smaller barber hones and feel that maybe they are a trifle too small for your hands, or would perfer to use them as a bench hone; Pick up one of these handy dandy hone holders :D For about $10 (depending on where you get it)
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/images_p/J11.417.123.jpg

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Originally Posted by xman

My question now is Blue, Yellow, Either or BOTH! I'll bet that yellow is fine for a final polish, but I get a great edge using such fine stones in combination with something a little more coarse. Speaking of which. What would eb the equivalent grit factor on the blue stone?

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Well both is allways the best option :cool: however not allways the affordable one.
Here is a site with one persons opnion on the relative breakdown on grit/grades of many popular hones (including the Belgian's)
http://www.messer-machen.de/schleifst.htm
Use a web based translation like Alta Vista to get the english verson ;)

If I had to get one, I'd go for the yellow because the finished shaving edge is more important to me than rough honing, the Norton 4K is great for that. Then get the blue as a step between the 4K and the 8+K hones... or if a razor is "dull" but not dull enough for the 4K and too dull to waste your time on the 8K.

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Originally Posted by Kelly

If I had to get one, I'd go for the yellow because the finished shaving edge is more important to me than rough honing, ...

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Thanks for the link. I guess what I'm saying is I find both absolutely necessary for the best edge. Something just a little coarse and something perfectly smooth as well.

X

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Originally Posted by Kelly

Hey Nenad,
I had given that some thought, but I feel that the epoxy they use to secure the halves together is more than likely stronger than the hone it's self. After this little cut, I can say I am glad I didnt start to split that puppy the whole area because I'd still be sawing away haha...

I think the thicknes of each grit would make it a little difficult to hold since they are only 1/2" in the first place. I see tips of fingers getting in the way or the swell/heel of the palm making contact with the moving blade :eek:

Your going to ware down on the hone anyway over time. Water hones ware pretty fast, and with ony 1/2" to start with you'd end up with a thin, brittle little "cake" to hold on to. At least with them together, you'll have the support of lesser used side.

If you split one down the crack, I'd love to hear how that worked out :D

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I think a trip to a stone mason and large circular saw blade will do the job done in no time. And I share your opinion on thickness of the resulting hone... Do couple of honings, and we are waiting for your report:)

Nenad

Xman,
The Belgians follow the grit of the Norton pretty closely, blue being around 4K and the yellow Coticule around 8K. The actual grit size is larger (5 to 20 microns) but it is their unique shape that provides for a finer finish than the actual particle size would indicate. They tend to only penetrate the steel of the blade maybe 2 microns. The Norton though, at least in the 4K range is probably faster cutting though.

I have a number of vintage Belgians and have found that the matrix resurfaces easily on 320 to 600 grit paper. I experimented with a pumice stone and can only say DON'T. One small loose grit from the pumice will wrech havoc on the stones surface.

If you have a belgian and a little Radio Shack microscope you can actually se the little garnets in the stone that do the cutting.

Tony