Bevel-Pyramid progression & Taped Spines

I have had some success on my initial attempts at setting a couple of bevels, on to finishing the edge. I say "some" because though I have had comfortable shaves with the two razors...I attribute that to serious focus on following the information provided and a lotta luck...I know I haven't arrived.

I was watching a video on honing and the fellow taped the spine during the bevel process, which, though I haven't done yet, I recognize the purpose/value of that method/procedure. The thing I am in question about was mid-way through the process, (he wasn't following a full or moderated pyramid but assessing his work as he honed), he removed the tape during his progression on the hones, (either part way through the 4000-norton or maybe on the 8000, sorry, I don't specifically recall.)

I thought about this and it seeemed to me that removing the tape during progressively finer hones would seem to change the degree of the bevel, admittedly very slightly, but, still, it would seem counter-productive in some way. I could understand it if he removed the taped after the hones at the point of stropping, as that is not as exact as a hone and would probably be okay. What I'm writing is more thinking out loud than a question, so in short...if a person were to use tape to reduce hone wear on the spine, should they keep it on throughout the honing process or is there a point where it would be okay or beneficial to remove the tape during hone progression and prior to stropping.

I close in saying the fellow on the video seemed very competent ...it appeared he knew what the hell he was doing...it is just that it didn't seem methodical...but...as said, what I don't know is a thick book...

Thanks in advance for your time in reply.


________________
Scott

Personally I leave tape on the whole way through honing, and then remove it prior to stropping.

I see your point about removing the tape midway. I've heard of people removing it after the 1k stone or the 4k stone, just to reduce spine wear.

It seems to work in the video, so I guess it is feasible, but I will defer to the experts on this one..! :)

When I first started honing I did a ton of actual hands on experiments with using tape...

I found that it takes about 20 laps on a Norton 4k stone to remove the effect of 1 layer of tape on a razor... (20 of my laps)

Keeping this info in the back of your mind makes using or not using tape what it actually is, a very minor distraction.. Volumes have been written about the effects, both bad, and good, but really the difference is 20 laps :)

FWIW I use 1 layer of tape on every razor, all the way through the process, unless a customer specifically asks me not to, and I include the 20 laps info in the honing letter I send home with the razor...

Keep in mind the use of tape grew exponentially when the "Double Bevel" info came out from Tim Zowada, and also some info that Bart released about his use of multiple layers...
I have never been a proponent of the use of more than 1 layer of tape, except for pre-bevel formation after serious restoration... So any info I talk about using tape is for 1 layer and 1 layer only...

Personaly I avoid tape w/ a passion. I do use it on rare occasions. When the blade is a perfect wedge where all or most of the side of the razor would be getting honed or if I just buffed and polished the razor and a large hone wear would result. Taping adds a new dimension of variables and issues. If you are just learning to hone I would only hone razors that you don't tape. Once you get a bunch of razors honed to your liking you can add the tape and track the changes the tape makes and will know what it is doing so you can compensate. Adding tape in the learning stages of honing will just make the learning more complicated.

Good luck

I wanted to specifically thank each of you for the information and explanation of the whys on your approach; as I enjoy this as a quiet pass-time and want to begin and continue correctly rather than stumble about your detailed answers are much more helpful than yes/no, use/don't use. Appreciate it and will probably being coming back with more questions for a little while...

Thanks for your time.

___________
Scott

I started with tape because I was afraid of causing excessive wear due to inexperience. I honed with tape for over a year on many ebay specials and what have you. I got consistently good results with 1 layer and usually using the pyramid method.

It bothered me that Lynn didn't use tape and I couldn't convince him to change :D so if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Kidding aside it did bother me. I felt like if Lynn didn't use it, unless there were specific circumstances calling for it, there must be an advantage to not taping.

I finally began to experiment with honing without tape. First I took a new old stock vintage Solingen and put a micrometer to the spine's honing flats. Then I set the bevel and continued to shave ready and checked it again. There was no difference in the measurement.

So unless it is a decorated spine, a Damascus blade I am happily honing tapeless and I like it better. A different feel to the razor on the hone for sure. I am not sorry I learned with tape though. I don't know that I wouldn't have been too heavy handed in the beginning to avoid more hone wear than necessary.

The big problem i have with tape is this: I dont keep track of how I honed each blade and always forget which blade was taped or not taped.

Then end up dropping down to the 4k again just to make sure everything is o.k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

The big problem i have with tape is this: I dont keep track of how I honed each blade and always forget which blade was taped or not taped.

Then end up dropping down to the 4k again just to make sure everything is o.k.

---

This is why I always use tape, since everyone pretty much agrees in certain instances it is favorable, I just use it period, there is never a doubt in my mind about it...

This is what i should do. But everytime someone posts a "is taping evil?" thread, i experiment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

This is why I always use tape, since everyone pretty much agrees in certain instances it is favorable, I just use it period, there is never a doubt in my mind about it...

---

I think Tape is a very personal preference type thing. I usually do not use it except when I am protecting a Damascus pattern on the spine or when I have to remove a lot of steel to repair an edge. I will tape if someone requests it also. I find that a normal honing removes very little metal from either the spine or the edge. I just have found no advantage in creating a double bevel for every day honing.

Have fun,

Lynn

Hey you guys, again, Thanks for your good information...primarily, I was curious about the honer removing the tape while mid-way through the hones...it didn't make sense to me...So, with your information what I'm taking away from this discussion for my use is:

1. Absent a reason to tape a spine, as Lynn's example, (protection of a Damascus or a decorative spine or major repair that will result in considerable metal removal), tape is a matter of the honer's preference, (omitting honer-wear altogether or by request of a customer).

2. If I decide to use tape, I'll use it throughout the grit/pyramid progression, only removing it at the stropping phase as though it is perhaps not the absolute wrong thing to do, it doesn't seem to serve an important purpose and therefore is something I would/will not do. With my finish wood chisels, I do set a second bevel, but, that is simply because of the mass of metal it is necessary to remove, but, that isn't what we're talking about here.

I'm not being diplomatic in my thanks, I enjoy this and do appreciate you guys taking the time to give me what you've learned over a lot of years...great group.

_______________
Scott