How did the old-timers sharpen their e-bay razors?

I have what to some might be a stupid question: What the heck did shavers use to sharpen their toys back in olden times before the Norton waterstone?

I’ve heard it said that those little razor hones are only good for touch up. I’ve also heard that Arkansas stones, even black and translucent ones are the wrong tool. Did the old timers use these or did they just suffer with/from dull razors? Actually, now that I think about it, a lot of 19th century portraits suggest that shaving was a low priority for many men. Mmmm…

I remain curious &C

Library Guy

They used the classics:

Belgian Coticlues and Blue stones, barber hones and paddle and loom strops with red and black pastes.

The rest of them grew beards.

(addendum: They along came Lynn <g>)

Tony

If you go on Ebay you'll see what they used. There are more varieties of vintage barber hones and stones than you could imagine. An edge can be started on a fine to ultrafine, which they had available. There are even some medium hones that are pretty good that way.


From the evidence I've seen and from what I learned from an old time barber, men generally used barber hones and strops (pasted and unpasted) to maintain their razors. When the razors became dull they either brought them to a barber or a shop to hone. In between, the barber hone or pasted strop provided all the honing they needed. If they used them to keep the razor keen it would be a long time between trips to the shop for major honing.

I'm also curious how they become so dull as the Ebay razors we see. They are shaving ready one day, perhaps start to pull. Then blam! You stop shaving with them. 10-20 years later they end up on Ebay duller then a door knob. Technically impossible to accomplish via shaving. You couldn't shave with a razor 1/2 as dull. So am I to believe they are sharp and placed in a closet and they dull over time?

I think most people took they're blades to a hone shop, the local hardware store or bought their own hones.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm also curious how they become so dull as the Ebay razors we see. They are shaving ready one day, perhaps start to pull. Then blam! You stop shaving with them. 10-20 years later they end up on Ebay duller then a door knob. Technically impossible to accomplish via shaving. You couldn't shave with a razor 1/2 as dull. So am I to believe they are sharp and placed in a closet and they dull over time?

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I have evidence that it's something like that. I've had old razors from Ebay that I sharpened to make useable, but they weren't great. Under 100x I noticed that the edges were crumbling microscopically when I tried to finish them with an 8K or finer hone. The result was that the edge looked uneven an had micro-chips at that magnification.

I then worked the razor aggressively to put a new edge on it (fresh metal), and they sharpened up beautifully keen with no problem. At 100x the edge was smooth and straight. My conclusion is that the edge had oxidized metal and didn't really become keen until I put a clean metal edge on it.

Just about every antique razor I got from ebay that wasn't NOS had that problem to some extent and improved when I put an edge of fresh metal on it.

Thats my experience with NOS too. That makes sense. Thanx

I think also alot of these Eboy revenge razors have been sitting in someones basement or attic or been pushed around loose in boxes for years and if the humidity and time didn't do them in the pushing and justling damaged the edges. Also who knows what people have been doing with these razors over the years, using them as box cutters maybe!

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm also curious how they become so dull as the Ebay razors we see. They are shaving ready one day, perhaps start to pull. Then blam! You stop shaving with them. 10-20 years later they end up on Ebay duller then a door knob. Technically impossible to accomplish via shaving. You couldn't shave with a razor 1/2 as dull. So am I to believe they are sharp and placed in a closet and they dull over time?

I think most people took they're blades to a hone shop, the local hardware store or bought their own hones.

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During all those years in storage the razors experienced what all steel does. It oxidised, rusted. Since the very edge is the place of greatest exposure that is where the greatest effect is. I agree with Joe Lerch. You have to get rid of the oxidised metal and get back to "good steel". Then you will get a good edge.

Just my two cents,

Some of you may have read that I started shaving at age 10 with a str8. My great uncle taught me. When I received my own first razor from my mom's aunt in England, it was a Joseph Allen and sons Medium Hollow (which, last year I was able to replace exactly, from Tony Miller. Thanks again Tony!)
With my razor I received a stone, which I now know was a Belgian Yellow. I did not know what it was at the time, and I received a horse hide strop also from England...... just some history.

My uncle answered this same question for me about "old-timers" sharpening their own razors and he related what his father and grandfather did, at different times.
They would ....
use a fine stone, then had a strop into which a handful of ash from the fireplace, or stove, was rubbed into. (Like us using pastes today) Then they used the very fine strop, for finishing the edge.
If they put a knick in the blade that they didn't feel competent to repair... they would take the razor to the barber, or to the blacksmith, to be rehoned.
Uncle said the razors made the trip to the barber about once every year, or so.

It was the ash on the strop that struck me as similar to the pastes that I find interesting. Carbon (in the ash) sharpening Carbon steel makes sense.

- Gramps

Gramps,
Thanks for the history (glad I could help with the razor). Over Xmas I wa talking to my father-in-law (82yo) about shaving and he remembered his father using a hanging strop before each shave. He also remembered that ever once in a while he would stand at the bedroom dresser with a little tiny strop laying on top of it and strop the razor. As he said this he animated what would look like typical honing movements so I suspect the tiny strop was a barber hone or a small paddle strop with abrasives.

Although I had watched my grandfather shave I was too young to remember the details but I do still use his mug.

Tony

Larry and Tony, this history is part of my fascination with str8s. From an old time Italian barber I used to go to when I was a young man I found out that he was only doing routine honing on his razors and sent razors out monthly for honing service. I think it was an adjustment he made because he was so busy. This guy was a master and wouldn't have done it otherwise. It was a good business decision.

Many barbers and gentlemen in olden days sent razors out to the shop for honing. This usually consisted of a leather belt and a Belgium hone. In addition there were sharpeners who went door to door to sharpen knives, razors and scissors. The barber hones were used to refresh the edges for the most part. Cool thread. Lynn

GREAT anecdotes fellas. I love hearing stuff like this, that's the bread and butter of our hobby!!

Jeff

I remember, when I was a very young child, a man used to come around with a truck once in a while and do sharpening. The people used to come out in the street and have their items sharpened on the spot. The only thing I really remember is he had a wheel that used to throw off big sparks when he used it.

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Originally Posted by adjustme69

In addition there were sharpeners who went door to door to sharpen knives, razors and scissors.

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Joe,

I remember that too. Our guy had this truck with this shrill bell and people would bring out knives scissors and saws. I don't know if he did razors. That is something you don't see anymore in our disposable society. Dull throw it out and buy new.:nono:

Rich, I don't know if a guy could make a living anymore doing that, with the price of gas and what he could charge for his services. I would think it could be a good little sideline for a shoe repair shop, though. Do you know any ambitious shoe repairmen? It could be another "while-u-wait" service.

Joe,

You are right. Can you imagine how many knives, scissors, saws and razors you would have to sharpen to make a living! Oh well it would have to be a sideline.

Of course, that means finding a shoe repair shop somewhere. Or a real tailor that isn't part of the dry cleaner. Or....

Don't get me started. :) This might sound odd coming from a guy with a whole bunch of time in school, but if people realized what a need there was for cobblers, tailors, electricians, and all sorts of tradesman, they might realize that dropping $100K on a bachelor's degree isn't always such a great idea. But, that's another thread, and far, far off topic.

Anyway, the scissor and knife sharpening guy used to come around in Brooklyn, too, though that was before my time. In my day, Grandma used the 'sharpener' on the back of the electric can opener. Just keep the thing away from my razors. :)

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Originally Posted by JerseyLawyer

Don't get me started. :) This might sound odd coming from a guy with a whole bunch of time in school, but if people realized what a need there was for cobblers, tailors, electricians, and all sorts of tradesman, they might realize that dropping $100K on a bachelor's degree isn't always such a great idea. But, that's another thread, and far, far off topic.

:)

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You can say that again. I remember my father telling me go to college you don't want a union job. Oh Dad were you wrong. (Since he has been dead since 99 I don't expect an answer) Electricians make a small fortune along with plumbers and other skilled trades. ;)

[QUOTE=Library Guy]I have what to some might be a stupid question: What the heck did shavers use to sharpen their toys back in olden times before the Norton waterstone?

****> Hi! Back in the "Olden Times", some men used the services weekly of itinerant "Knife Grinders", generally immigrant Italian craftsmen who came by with horse-drawn carts and offered to sharpen knives, scissors, razors, and farm tools like pitchforks. Those "Grinders" used various quarry stones and homemade strops for sharpening knives and razors.

Others learned to use the stones themselves, and only used the services of the Grinders if things got really out of whack.

Barbers back then were also surgeons ( hence the red and white "bandages" of the Barber Poles!) and used to sharpen their surgery and dental tools, along with their razors. Some men took them to the barber when honing was needed, and just stropped at home.

Some guys here use only barber hones - albeit in different escalating grit sizes, and strop. It can be done with diligence and care, and the right stones and techniques. The Norton 4K/8K simply is a great combination tool with a defined homogeneity of grit, and a good track record!

Good luck!

( I use em all!)

I've thought, more than casually, about opening a cutlery shop after I retire. Well, I guess cutlery, etc. A small brick and mortar place with a strong online presence as well. Offer all sorts of high-end cutlery, razors of all sorts (except cartridge types), Creams, balms, colognes, aftershaves, soaps, brushes, stones, strops, blah blah blah. I'd also offer sharpening service for all of the above. Hell if I had the space, maybe even some English preserves, teas, coffees, etc. I could see myself spending my golden years in an endeavor such as this. Only problem is my golf addiction. I'd have to find someone trustworthy to man the store for me fairly often ~ and with such a small operation, I doubt I could afford to pay enough to get the right person. A part time teenager would not be ideal in a shop such as this.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by threeputt

I've thought, more than casually, about opening a cutlery shop after I retire. Well, I guess cutlery, etc. A small brick and mortar place with a strong online presence as well. Offer all sorts of high-end cutlery, razors of all sorts (except cartridge types), Creams, balms, colognes, aftershaves, soaps, brushes, stones, strops, blah blah blah. I'd also offer sharpening service for all of the above. Hell if I had the space, maybe even some English preserves, teas, coffees, etc. I could see myself spending my golden years in an endeavor such as this. Only problem is my golf addiction. I'd have to find someone trustworthy to man the store for me fairly often ~ and with such a small operation, I doubt I could afford to pay enough to get the right person. A part time teenager would not be ideal in a shop such as this.

Jeff

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Why don't you call your shop Classic Shaving?

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Originally Posted by threeputt

I've thought, more than casually, about opening a cutlery shop after I retire. Well, I guess cutlery, etc. A small brick and mortar place with a strong online presence as well. Offer all sorts of high-end cutlery, razors of all sorts (except cartridge types), Creams, balms, colognes, aftershaves, soaps, brushes, stones, strops, blah blah blah. I'd also offer sharpening service for all of the above. Hell if I had the space, maybe even some English preserves, teas, coffees, etc. I could see myself spending my golden years in an endeavor such as this. Only problem is my golf addiction. I'd have to find someone trustworthy to man the store for me fairly often ~ and with such a small operation, I doubt I could afford to pay enough to get the right person. A part time teenager would not be ideal in a shop such as this.

Jeff

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Or "The slicers shop" lol:eek:

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

Why don't you call your shop Classic Shaving?

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Smart A$$ :) Very much like Ray's place indeed. Only the sharpening would be done in-house and I'd extend the cutlery fare into carry folders, kitchen cutlery, etc. I have no idea as to the logistics involved, but I'd want to carry more of the British creams and colognes, etc. Trumpers, Coates, DR Harris, Penhaligon's, Crown, Taylors, Castle Forbes, T & H. I probably forgot a few, but I have yet to find one place that has them all. There must be some business politics involved, who knows. I am impressed with what Ray has accomplished, make no mistake about it. I'm lucky (and unlucky) in that our town is a major thoroughfare for those heading to the beaches ~ Destin, etc. We get a LOT of traffic through here, and I-10 runs through as well. Who knows what the market will be in 10-15 years, but there's always room for one more, as it were.

Mebbe a kiosk in the mall?

What a sec, this is one of those trick questions idn't it? LOL...they didn't have Ebay back then...