Question about using Escher/Thuringian

So, while the power was out this week and with nothing else to do, I tried using my new "alleged" Escher/Thuringian on a few blades.

Anyway, what I found was that the basic X pattern was a little awkward at first, but I think I got the hang of keeping the blade flat on the surface of the hone despite how narrow it is.

What concerned me, however, was that I could not see any slurry or swarf developing on the surface of the hone, no matter how many strokes I went through (25-40 for most blades). My razors are already basically shave ready, so I didn't notice any difference in either HHT or TPT, and it seems like the only way to tell whether I was making any difference was by shaving with them. Well, the blade I used yesterday felt great, but did I make any difference in the sharpness by polishing with my stone? I can't tell.

To put it in simple terms, am I supposed to see slurry or swarf develop on the surface of the stone when I use an Escher/Thuringian to polish? And how can I tell whether I am making any difference in the sharpness of the blade or when I am supposed to stop the polishing? Thanks!

IME if you want slurry off of an Escher you have to create it with a slurry stone. You might find an individual stone that is a bit softer where the water may show a bit of milk if you do a lot of passes with a razor but in general nothing like what you would make with a slurry stone. If you don't have one a credit card sized 325 DMT is only a few bucks, works well and doesn't leave a residue of it's own abrasive.

If you're coming off of an 8k and go to a Thuringan you can feel improvement if you know what you are doing. Since your razors were already shave ready when you honed on the stone you probably did contribute some smoothness since you didn't make them worse. :) With a thin stone such as yours holding it in the hand while honing might make for more control. Worth a try anyhow.

I cant speak specifically about the stones that you mention, as I dont have them, but my higher grit stones really dont seem to swarf up that much when I use them.

I have the Shapton stones and the 8k and 16k take ages for the swarf to start showing, and thats on a white stone. So if your's are darker coloured this will also make it harder to see the swarf.

Because these stones are so high grit they dont really remove much material at all. They're really there to add the final polish to an already sharp edge, so they wont take off much metal.

If you used a lot of pressure, or a load of strokes, you would start to see swarf building up, but all a finishing hone is meant to do is smooth off the coarser edge left by the 4k (or whatever) sharpening stone. I only start to see swarf on these hones after I've had a fair few razors on them.

You can shave off a 4k stone, and all of my razors will pass the floating arm hair test off the 4k stone, but the edge would be horrible on your skin. The 8k and 16k are just refining that edge and making it comfortable to shave with, so you dont need a lot of strokes to finish up. I only do a dozen strokes or so on my 8 and 16k stones, literally just enough to smooth the edge off and make it comfortable to use.

I hope thats of some help!

Hopefully someone who has those stones can chime in with their experience as well..! :)

EDIT: Jimmy beat me to the punch! Man, you're quick..! :D

What's the grit of your usual final polishing hone?
I never saw swarf with a Thuringian hone. Honing itself will hardly create any slurry. The edge does improve after a coticule IME.

That's good information. To answer the question, I use a Belgian BBW/coti for honing, but as a beginner, I have not been willing to try honing any of my actual "shave ready" razors until I get the skills for it. I've been able to get a trash Chinese razor relatively sharp using these stones, but I feel like I'm still not at the stage where I need to be.

In other words, the razors that I am polishing on the Escher/Thuringian now have been honed by someone else (Bob Keyes), and I believe that he uses a typical Norton 4k/8k setup and then just stropping.

I was hoping that the combination of the Escher/Thuringian I am using now plus good stropping technique will keep the razor edges I have now fresh and sharp for a while. I'm finding that I can go many months without needing any rehoning, but a few of the blades start to "pull" and catch on whiskers after about 10 shaves or so, even with the best stropping (or at least the best stropping that I can do). Does it make sense to use the Escher/Thuringian in that situation? Anyway, I hope so!

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Does it make sense to use the Escher/Thuringian in that situation?

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Yes it does. If that doesn't refresh the edge sufficiently you might try dropping down to your coticule and then back up to the Thuringan. If all you are honing is razors that Bob has already honed then we can be confident that the bevels were set. If you're honing razors that you got off ebay or locally you might think about getting a bevel setter and work your way up.

I never notice swarf on my finishing hones, but when I go to wipe down the blades after I'm done I no sometimes notice a hint of black on the papertowel. That's about it, though.

I find that it takes a rather descriminating thumb/hair/shave test to find the differences between the various finishing hones. For example, I can't tell apart my C12k, Asagi, or Thurry at all, but I'm sure others would be able to. Like anything else, it just takes experience.

Excellent, and I appreciate the help, guys! --Jeff

I have several Escher's, and I never notice anything build up on them. One stone is in a box and still has instructions, It say's, that a "Fine Slime" will develop when you use it.
Here's a pic of a small 5x1 with instructions....

Thanks! I actually have the exact same label inside my box (same words, everything) but without the little "E&Co." cup, which is why mine will probably always be just an alleged Escher. It seems to work well enough that I decided to keep it despite this problem, and I still don't get any "fine slime" while I'm working, but I will keep trying!

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Thanks! I actually have the exact same label inside my box (same words, everything) but without the little "E&Co." cup, which is why mine will probably always be just an alleged Escher. It seems to work well enough that I decided to keep it despite this problem, and I still don't get any "fine slime" while I'm working, but I will keep trying!

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That is because your's doesn't have the little cup. The fine slime is kept in the little cup. :roflmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Thanks! I actually have the exact same label inside my box (same words, everything) but without the little "E&Co." cup, which is why mine will probably always be just an alleged Escher. It seems to work well enough that I decided to keep it despite this problem, and I still don't get any "fine slime" while I'm working, but I will keep trying!

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What happens as the surface of the hone dries?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Thanks! I actually have the exact same label inside my box (same words, everything) but without the little "E&Co." cup, which is why mine will probably always be just an alleged Escher. It seems to work well enough that I decided to keep it despite this problem, and I still don't get any "fine slime" while I'm working, but I will keep trying!

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Neither do I, so don't feel bad. Also, consider the size, it may take a few more strokes than normal to get the desired result.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That is because your's doesn't have the little cup. The fine slime is kept in the little cup. :roflmao

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Your a funny guy Jimmy.......:rofl2:

Oh, very funny. For the record, I would never have given a damn about whether or not a cruddy label on a little wood box had a little cup on it until I started hanging out here, so that just proves that mental problems can be transmitted from one person to another through websites!

And for the other question, the stone just seems to get drier and drier as I run the razor edge back and forth, until I give it a few more shpritzes of water to do more laps. I think if I didn't keep adding water as I was going the stone would become completely dry whil I was working, and I understand from what I read here that a dry stone is bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Oh, very funny. For the record, I would never have given a damn about whether or not a cruddy label on a little wood box had a little cup on it until I started hanging out here, so that just proves that mental problems can be transmitted from one person to another through websites!

And for the other question, the stone just seems to get drier and drier as I run the razor edge back and forth, until I give it a few more shpritzes of water to do more laps. I think if I didn't keep adding water as I was going the stone would become completely dry whil I was working, and I understand from what I read here that a dry stone is bad.

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Yes, water evaporates and I suppose the rock absorbs some. I keep a spray bottle handy to keep the water going. Here is a review where honemeister Russel Baldridge finishes dry on a Muller. I tried it with great results after reading it. Here is another of Russel's reviews on a stone like yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IME if you want slurry off of an Escher you have to create it with a slurry stone. You might find an individual stone that is a bit softer where the water may show a bit of milk if you do a lot of passes with a razor but in general nothing like what you would make with a slurry stone. If you don't have one a credit card sized 325 DMT is only a few bucks, works well and doesn't leave a residue of it's own abrasive.

If you're coming off of an 8k and go to a Thuringan you can feel improvement if you know what you are doing. Since your razors were already shave ready when you honed on the stone you probably did contribute some smoothness since you didn't make them worse. :) With a thin stone such as yours holding it in the hand while honing might make for more control. Worth a try anyhow.

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jimmy, i did that on my escher early on, and cut the living crap out of the palm of my hand behind my thumb, but i did get distracted by the misses, so i did have some help.

If you want to get slurry you should not clean its surface after use. It'll build up slowly. If you use them with water there's no need to clean them anyway. if you'd like a slurry stone I can get you one.

Hi JeffE,

I am a fellow beginner who also happens to own a Coticule and Escher (with the slime cup). My straights have also been honed by others, and I likewise have been learning the best way to touch up (best for me that is). And my name is also Jeff. Cue twilight zone music.

My coti is this one: Coticule008 - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
Bart recommended it as being gentle on the skin, and it is indeed. I touch up on just water and believe it is really all I would ever need for touch ups.

But I bought a Vintage Escher from the classifieds while waiting the 4 weeks for the coti to show up. They arrived the same day.

I tried the Escher with just water and really did not like the shave at all. Then was taught that the Escher is just for polishing (with slurry) as the final step - something is needed before hand to do the actual sharpening. Such as the Nakayama Kiita (with slurry) that I also just happened to buy.

Since none of my straights need a touch up right now I have not had the chance to try this Nakayama/Escher combo yet.

Have you tried your coti with just water for touch up yet? Some people really do not like the edge off a coti, and I waited a long time before buying one because of some opinions from people I trust. But I learned through trial and error that what works for others does not always work for me.

Good luck, have fun.
jeff