What makes someone a Honemeister?

Sorry for my ignorance....but what makes someone a honemeister? Although fairly new to SRP and using a SR I am really just wondering what makes a person a honemeister? I am and have currenty been a firefighter paramedic FFPM for about 10 years now and am really used to standards...rules...and guidelines for titles so maybe that is part of my own ignorance, but really have not come across anything that states when you become a honemeister. Is this just some made up name for those that have been honing razors for a while? Seems to be something easily put behind ones name...Let me know...I am sorry for any offense or ignorance. Lynn maybe you could chime in on this one.

Thanks

B

There's no official guidelines or any official definition of honemeister that I am aware of. It really is just an honorary term used to describe someone who is a master of the art of honing straights. Lynn, for example, is a honemeister.

What makes a honemeister? That is a question that has vexed the forums for a while now, and seems to crop up with a certain periodicity. My definition includes things like experience (years and/or number and variety or razors honed), consistency, knowledge (related to experience I feel), and the ability to be able to hone any razor in any condition (within reason) to a fine edge that would shave anybody, regardless of skin or beard type. A honemeister has the capability of extracting the best edge possible from a given razor. In my book a honemeister does not need to be professional (as in takes money for honing) but of course it often turns out that they are, as it is still, despite the amount of discussion we have about honing here, a rare and hard-won skill.

James.

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Originally Posted by Bubba4422

Sorry for my ignorance....but what makes someone a honemeister?

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Knowledge, tools, practice and consistent smooth sharp shaving results.
.... and reputation.

There is an FAQ entry for this. And indeed a honemeister will be able to hone basically any razor back to life on any hone.

What matters to me is trust in the person's potential success rate. I know a good number of people who can get a razor in ok condition shave ready, but I know only a few who can bring a mirror polished wedge with a warped blade and uneven honewear back to life.

That said, it is all relative. As stated previously, I have had razors whose shaves I did not like but a friend of mine loved, and vice versa.

Regards,
Robin

I think its a title bestowed upon those who have an excellent reputation for getting excellent shaving edges on any razor with any stone. Time served, the number of razors honed and skill level are all key elements as well.

Its a reputation thing! :)

Luckily there are still a few things in life that aren't over regulated.
Obviously for professionals working in fields such as structural engineering, medicine and law there has to be a way of measuring competence.
There are some areas where a good reputation will suffice.
In the UK we are going over the top, a large 'proof of competence' industry seems to have sprung up with all the attendant red tape and costs.

There is no test or rules carved in stone for honemiesters . It's a word we use to describe someone who has a good reputation for being able to hone straight razors to shave ready condition , for others .

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Originally Posted by Bubba4422

I am and have currenty been a firefighter paramedic FFPM for about 10 years now and am really used to standards...rules...and guidelines for titles

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When there are a standard of rules and guidelines that amount to a checklist, one could self proclaim his honemeister status based on having checked off that list.

But "honemeister" is a title bestowed on someone by others based on their observations. So even though a wannabe can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people all of the time, he or she will never be able to bestow upon himself an undisputed honemeister title!

I'll go ahead and give you an official list of existing honemeisters:

no wait, I better not - you never know who might be offended they are not yet on the list :D I've included a picture of some who attempt to bestow titles upon themselves below in my signature line

The term " The Honemeister" was bestowed upon me years ago by the late Ray Dupont of Classic Shaving after i had honed several thousand razors and was starting to get the hang of honing. At that time, I had probably honed more razors than anyone out there as our world was much smaller than today. Believe it or not, Classic Shaving had just graduated from an Ebay store at this time. I thought that was pretty nice, but was also a little embarrassed by having that kind of recognition. Well, after years and many thousands of additional razors honed, I am still a little embarrassed by this and have probably still honed more razors than anyone else out there.

As our population has grown, we have seen people come in and learn how to hone successfully, quietly helping people out and honing as many razors as they could. Over time and probably because of the realization of how much time goes into honing razors, especially ebay type beaters, some of these folks have decided to provide honing services for a fee.

We have also seen people come into our environment seeing what they perceive as dollar signs.These people normally increase post count in a short period of time to be seen as an expert and typically will hone around 100 razors and proclaim their expertise. We have seen people come into our environment and ask every honing question possible, learn how to hone here along with what stones and media work and then magically remember years of experience with straight razors. These are typically the people that self proclaim their expertise and look for a title. They also tend to beg feedback and give little back to our environment. The term "Honester" was developed by those seeking this kind of recognition in my opinion.

I have watched our environment go from a place where there was little to no information available on the internet to a place where now SRP is recognized world wide as the source of the best and most credible straight razor information available. We started this forum which was the first straight razor forum on the internet with no agendas other than to bring people back to the art of straight razor shaving and wet shaving in general. It has always been a pay it forward environment where people would hone razors for others and donate razors to others only asking that these people help other new people out as possible in the future. This is also why we don't allow free honing advertising as the majority of what we have seen with this is just to "get into the business". This definitely is not in line with the spirit on which this forum was created or continues to exist. We have so many people that help people out when ever they can not seeking this kind of recognition. Keep in mind that there are definitely those out there that simply want to learn to hone for the pleasure of their own knowledge.

Honing to me remains more an art than a science although I learn alot from our forum members every day. The more razors you hone, the better you get at honing. It is amazing just how different all the styles and sizes of razors are when it comes to honing, not even considering manufacturers or conditions that you can run ito. Then add all the different types of hones and media and the pursuit of the perfect edge is never ending

Would we also have titles for people that restore razors or make custom razors? We have long felt that any kind of accreditation type of undertaking would truly also not be in the spirit of the forum and have avoided it for many reasons.

No matter who you are or how many razors you have honed, you will not please all the people all the time as we see when new people try to shave and encounter problems with shave ready razors. All we can do is our best and work with people to be successful in obtaining all the pleasures associated with straight razor shaving. We have some people within this forum who are very talented at honing razors and who are also available to help you out any time.

I'm not sure that any titles can improve the wonderful environment that has been established here and I remain grateful to have a community like this to participate in.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by Lynn

They also tend to beg feedback and give little back to our environment. The term "Honester" was developed by those seeking this kind of recognition in my opinion.

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Well, I wont be using that term again..! :)

I guess I totally misunderstood that term when I saw it. I thought it was just people who enjoyed honing and were keen to learn more.

Jesus Lynn wrote a whole lot :)


I am the lazy typer

What makes someone a Honemeister? = Confidence...

The guy behind the hones, and the guy that sends the razor, both have the confidence that the razor is going to end up shave ready...

A lot of good people already gave a lot of good info. It is an informal title granted by someone else / a lot of someone elses, based on many factors. The title is informal. There is not, nor will there ever be any official SRP endorsed accreditation.

Also, the amount of razors is not the be all / end all. Someone can hone a thousand razors, but unless he is into restoring lost causes, I am pretty sure that I will have honed more truly junked edges than that person. I pride myself on being able to restore and hone anything as long as there is enough metal left underneath the damage. And I've even honed (and shaved with) a splitting maul, just to prove to myself that I could.

Yet I am definitely not calling myself a honemeister (nor would I like to be called one) because I also know that there are holes in my experience. I flat out refuse to hone (or restore) anything smaller or equal than 5/8. I hate those puny tooth picks and the couple of times I tried to hone a 4/8 did not end well. I've only ever honed 1 stainless razor so as far as experience goes, that is nothing to brag about, and I've never honed a Japanse kamisori. And the total count of honed edges is certainly less than 200 so that is also not big achievement.

Of course, if someone is that desparate to prove that he is a honemeister, I could always send him or her a damascus wedge with slightly uneven grind and spine, without an initial bevel, hardened to 62 HRC.
:p

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Originally Posted by Lynn

The term " The Honemeister" was bestowed upon me years ago by the late Ray Dupont of Classic Shaving after i had honed several thousand razors and was starting to get the hang of honing.

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:gaah: Looks like I've got a ways to go .....:D

I would agree with several here who have basically stated that it was an informal reference of someone who is accomplished...I would imagine that whoever they may be, the enjoyment was all about getting there...I enjoy where I'm at in my profession, but, I enjoyed the journey a lot more.

The one thing that actually brought me to this site was after watching Lynn's honing videos on Youtube, (I'd started collecting razors just out of interest in razors themselves w/o consideration to using them), I remembered he said something about the enjoyment of the methodology associated to straight razor use and maintainence...referencing slowing down from the hustle-bustle...he was right!

If it isn't beautiful, enjoyable or usable...get rid of it!

Hey, don't believe those guys. You want to be a honemeister I'll tell you how to do it. Just send me $500 cash in small bills and I'll arrange for an official Honemeister Certificate to be issued to you along with a free set of references and you'll be all set. Har Har.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Hey, don't believe those guys. You want to be a honemeister I'll tell you how to do it. Just send me $500 cash in small bills and I'll arrange for an official Honemeister Certificate to be issued to you along with a free set of references and you'll be all set. Har Har.

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PM your address to me Nelson, I'm going to get the checkbook right now. :rofl2:

think about it in terms of The Godfather....there is only one head of the family who has this title which is given out of honor and respect, but there are a lot of errand boys lapping at his heels....deal with it :)

there is only one honemeister, but many disciples...

oh, and NEVER go against the family is always good advice.....:chop:

who knew my wife's italian heritage might come in handy one day??

:)

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Originally Posted by wedwards

there is only one honemeister, but many disciples...

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The chief honemeister got crucified and the disciples were all martyred but one and he was exiled. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Lynn

We have also seen people come into our environment seeing what they perceive as dollar signs.These people normally increase post count in a short period of time to be seen as an expert and typically will hone around 100 razors and proclaim their expertise. We have seen people come into our environment and ask every honing question possible, learn how to hone here along with what stones and media work and then magically remember years of experience with straight razors. These are typically the people that self proclaim their expertise and look for a title. They also tend to beg feedback and give little back to our environment. The term "Honester" was developed by those seeking this kind of recognition in my opinion.

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What an astute observation Lynn, and it's one of those subjects that doesn't come up often at all.

I for one have observed many a member join, gain a ridiculous post count in a short time during which they ask all the usual honing questions. Then a month or so later they're giving advice like old pros to hapless newbs who can't tell that it's all BS (or that it's at best info that they could have gleamed on their own from the wiki or old threads).

So what makes a honemeister? I can't say for certain, but experience and word-of-mouth definitely have a lot to do with it. I also think that true honemeisters do not seek titles and do it for the love of it. Anyone seeking a title should probably not be trusted. It's a virtue that separates the true artisans from the high-posting "honesters" that Lynn speaks of.

It's not that I don't trust our member honers/honemeisters (especially when buying from the classifieds - buyer beware and all), but I do recommend that newbs learn the sharpness tests, the most important being the shave test. That way you can determine for yourself if the members skills match their reputation. It takes a certain amount of experience, but that's another thread.....

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The chief honemeister got crucified and the disciples were all martyred but one and he was exiled. :eek:

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No no! You guys are using the wrong metaphores! Clearly it is like Star Wars (the good ones - 4,5, and 6). See, a young man learns the ways of the hone from a master, all the while in danger from a vast empire with an evil leader who is skilled with the dark side of the hone. Trials and tribulations ensue, but naturals triumph over synthetics in the end with the help of cute furry critters who sing weird songs.

James.

I was thinking a little more about this and wanted to add, that all of our members who come to SRP and learn how to hone their own razors to a level that produces shaves that they can enjoy, become their own honemeisters and at the end of the day, this to me is the greatest achievement of them all and well worthy of the highest recognition. I would also recognize every next generation of people who help teach our members to be self sufficient and in turn, teach the next generation. This is where the accolades go in my opinion. I also hope we will always have people who need every hone out there and that can experiment with how they all work and come up with new techniques that are better that what we have today. It is my dream that this knowledge along with the teaching and helpful spirit of this forum will be passed on well beyond my time.

Thanks again folks,

Lynn.

Let's face it; there are a lot of "good" honers out there. Some are anywhere from good to really great. I am pretty good, and I know it, and I have been told that. I have honed perhaps 500 or more Ebay junkers, and I would say that I am at the least "pretty good", BUT...

In my opinion there will only ever be one honemeister, and that is Lynn Abrams. It's true! ...because, "It's true"

THE END

Steve

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I was thinking a little more about this and wanted to add, that all of our members who come to SRP and learn how to hone their own razors to a level that produces shaves that they can enjoy, become their own honemeisters and at the end of the day, this to me is the greatest achievement of them all and well worthy of the highest recognition. I would also recognize every next generation of people who help teach our members to be self sufficient and in turn, teach the next generation. This is where the accolades go in my opinion. I also hope we will always have people who need every hone out there and that can experiment with how they all work and come up with new techniques that are better that what we have today. It is my dream that this knowledge along with the teaching and helpful spirit of this forum will be passed on well beyond my time.

Thanks again folks,

Lynn.

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Well said...and this is what makes Lynn THE Honemiester :)

WELL, YOU GOT YOUR MASTER PLUMBERS AND YOUR MASTER ELECTRICIANS AND YOUR MASTER BARBERS AND YOUR MASTER MECHANICS AND YOUR MASTER CARPENTERS (another Abrams) AND YOUR MASTER SARGEANTS AND YOUR MASTER MINDS SO IT WOULD FOLLOW THAT THERE IS AT LEAST A POSSIBILITY THAT THERE MIGHT JUST BE A MASTER HONER OUT THERE SOMEWHERE.

IT LOOKS LIKE THE APPRENTICES HAVE ELECTED THEIR MASTER. WE APPRENTICES ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT WE NEED A TOP NOTCH ROLE MODEL. AND THAT'S WHAT WE GOT.

This is something I think is really cool about SRP, and the straight shaving world in general.

As I've looked around here, I've picked up that it's not just the method of shaving that's old-school. The method of teaching and learning is as well.

In a world where can spend thousands of dollars to come away with a certificate telling people we are masters at something when, in fact, we have never done it in real life, has taken a lot of the meaning out of what it is to be truly proficient and masterful at whatever it is you do.

I have always very much been a fan of the idea of hands-on learning, the idea of apprentice/master training, and merit decided by those who have experienced our craft first-hand.

It's a very old-school way to look at it.

But as far as I can tell, a honemeister is one who has learned through doing, often with close teaching and discussion with another who is highly skilled, and has been given their title by the people whose razors they have honed to an exceptional degree.

It's a merit-based system supported by an individual taking initiative and controlling their own learning.

I really love that concept, and I really love the environment of creativity and dedication it creates.

From my newbie point of view I've always considered it in Glenn's terms: Someone you can trust to sharpen a blade to really great standards (he knows what he is talking about). This philosophy has saved me a lot of the "I'm not sure if it is me or the blade that there is something wrong with" bellyaching. You are guaranteed ultimate shaving sharpness in a world of "shave ready", half broken ebay blades. And knowing that Lynn set the honemeister standard, you have a name you can trust.

This sounds so much like a diet soda commercial pitch I wanna puke. But it is more true than anything you've ever seen on TV (and twice as sharp). There are some self proclaimers around but there are enough resources here to ID who knows what they are doing if you keep your eyes open, your ears up and your head on your shoulders.

With that said there are certainly many here who can get a razor sharp without being a honemeister but that is a whole different realm I'm going to explore when I'm comfortable with knowing that I can get a fantastic shave consistently with each shave, and how long that great edge should last.

I dunno, just my approach to what seems like a big wide world of straight razors.

Well, we're getting a bit off topic here, but I'd like to remind the non-German speakers of the etymological origin of the English loan word "Meister".

• Urban Dictionary: meister has the current usage (warning, swear words ahead)
• Meister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has the etymology: "
  The word Meister originally means "master" in German (as in master craftsman [...]). It has been borrowed into English slang, where it is used in compound words. It is often used as a suffix added to a noun to demonstrate proficiency in a given area. A person referred to as blank meister is one that has extensive theoretical knowledge and practical skills in their profession, business concerns and training. Typically the blank is filled in with a word that describes the particular skill set the person in question is an expert in, (for example, a puzzle meister would be someone aptly skilled at completing puzzles).[...]
• The interesting bit is this one: Master craftsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. "Master" in German implies formal training and approval: "The master craftsman is the highest professional qualification in crafts and is a state-approved grade. The education includes theoretical and practical training in the craft and also business and legal training, and includes the qualification to be allowed to train apprentices as well. The status of master craftsman is regulated in the German Gesetz zur Ordnung des Handwerks, HandwO (Law of crafts)."

So, it's all relative, as always. And the term "honemeister" should indeed be reserved for the very few people who actually know how to hone anything on anything. Those who easily dismiss the idea of "honemeister accreditation" should keep in mind that the concept is still common in a number of European countries, and therefore theoretically feasible, but practically impossible, because there would need to be a formal education body, scholars, etc. Neither practically feasible nor, I think, desirable. Honing a razor that is almost shaving sharp is relatively easy, for everything else there is Lynn et al. And yes, I am myself most wary of people who join this forum, amass four digit postcounts within a few months, and then start honing for money (same for free honing by beginners, by the way - it's basically "give me your razor for free and pray I won't screw it up" thing.).

Regards,
Robin

im never going to teach my boys to drive but when i get the hang of it i might just sit them down and teach them how to use a straight razor then to hone :dropjaw:

oh just in case you were wondering 18 and 20 yrs old :)

ian

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I was thinking a little more about this and wanted to add, that all of our members who come to SRP and learn how to hone their own razors to a level that produces shaves that they can enjoy, become their own honemeisters and at the end of the day, this to me is the greatest achievement of them all and well worthy of the highest recognition. I would also recognize every next generation of people who help teach our members to be self sufficient and in turn, teach the next generation. This is where the accolades go in my opinion. I also hope we will always have people who need every hone out there and that can experiment with how they all work and come up with new techniques that are better that what we have today. It is my dream that this knowledge along with the teaching and helpful spirit of this forum will be passed on well beyond my time.

Thanks again folks,

Lynn.

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This pretty much says it all why there is no place like SRP. I really have to say that the Mods do great job and prevent lots of predatory types from haunting the people who are here just for the passion of shaving and sport honing. Many places you go you find lots of freinds but then the caveat is they have something to sell you and really no honest interest in what you are doing after that. Success for me is to teach and convert as many as I can and get one nice shave each day.

there is alot of good posts on this thread. i found a shumate barber hone...yea its time to learn i just hope i dont wreck the edge.....but what i would consider a honemeister would be if i was to ask a group of people who is the best at honing a straight when they all say the same name (Mr. L. Abrams) all at the same time...thats when the quality and dedication of your work speak for you and you dont have to say a word.

Well i'm the honemeister of the family. For years i've honed and sharpened the knives, wood working tools, axes and razors. I've also sharpened some knives for our family friends but they have been exceptions.
My wife once said that we all have some kind of perversions and knives are the ones that suits me. As soon i see a dull knife or tool or something i begin to yell and moan and vanish into my garage until i get out with a something sharp. Can't help it.

What it comes to razors i think it is a great help for beginners to send a razor to get honed by someone with experience enough to do that, but just in general i think that everyone should at least try to learn to hone his/her razors. Just like our grandfathers did.

A honemeister is simply a meister with a hone. Without the hone, the meister is not a honemeister. Without the meister, the hone is not one either. Together the hone and meister are the defenders of the world.

One indicator of how rare a true honemeister can be: On any day there are at least 1,000 straight razors for sale on eBay. There are almost never more than 50 of them advertised "shave ready," and usually around 35. There are just six people who regularly sell them advertised as shave-ready. Only three of them have meet the highest standards of customer satisfaction.

So there are thousands of people who sell razors from time to time. But only a comparative handful with the confidence to constantly buy, restore and resell razors in shave-ready condition.

Considerably more of those people are here in SRP than on eBay.

The really well made steel blades tend to give the best edges and I keep telling people who buy a $10 Chinese or Pakistani blade that there are limits to how sharp it can get. I prefer dubl ducks and Henckels, you know, Solingen steel for my razors and I am consistent in my honing. You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.