Getting a smoother/duller edge??

I pretty sure I'm alone here with my sensitive skin but I like working from a duller blade. Lately I've been just backhoning and then not honing at all from there and stropping the blade into oblivion until it shaves ultra smooth. Shaves great and leaves no razor burn at all. I remember a looooong time ago, Chaaaaz (remember him?) made a reference to honing one pass on the 4,000 side of a Norton to back off a too sharp edge as his finishing stroke. I may try that, but I'm wondering if there might be any other tricks I'm not aware of to get a smooth duller like edge.

I like shaving with a sharp edge too but find it less stressful to my skin to use something not quite as sharp as I can get it.

Thanx

Woops...forgot. I'm using a Swaty and a Carborudum barber hone for finishing. Maybe I just need to perfect my technique and finish with the 8,000.

I don't think that shaving with a dull razor is the answer. It is clear to me that you need and ultra sharp razor to get a truely great shave. I suggest learning the honing and stropping techniques. Another extremely important aspect is the face preperation. Prep your face and use a razor sharp razor and you will do well.

It has been argued in the past that a razor can be too sharp. Ray from ClassicShaving often warns against using 0.25 micron diamond paste, as it can create an edge so sharp it catches on every imperfection in your face. A blade this sharp may cause irritation to those with sensitive skin as well. I don't think AFDavis is talking about a dull razor, but rather one that is not super-ultra-mega-mondo-sharp.

Yup, they are still really sharp. :-) I'm thinking maybe a lower grit finishing hone might be better. I'm at the point in my honing that .5 paste doesn't make the blade any sharper despite repeated passes, so this may be the problem. It does catch on every single imperfection. I suppose I could try using a much thicker cream. I may try and chuck the barber hones and just use the 8000 on a few blades.

I shave straight from the 8000, and the razors are jeest fine... But I am waiting for my Itsapeach and Lithide finishing hones to arive, so I will post my impressions...
Nenad

Thanx Nenad, did you get the DEs yet? Let us know how it goes.

I have to agree with you Mr. Davis. I too prefer a razor that isn't super super sharp. I tend to get a much more comfortable shave with a very keen razor (not dangerously keen) even if I have to make an extra pass to get some remaining stubble. I'm relatively new to str8s and I can't believe how sharp they are. I've used scalpels and let me tell you, a keen str8 can put a scalpel to shame. Then again, scalpels are designed to incise; str8s are designed to "scrape". Nonetheless, I don't want to run into someone with either of those in a dark alley! :eek:

-Rob

Good point,

I ran one over an 8,000 grit Norton and it cooled down nicely. I'll try some others in the A.M.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Thanx Nenad, did you get the DEs yet? Let us know how it goes.

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Not yet, I was hoping to score them yesterday on my shopping in Greece... Didn't found them, but in the street kiosk (!) I found Omega brushes (boar AND badger), DOVO Shavette, and DOVO 6/8 Bismark (black). Go figure...

Nenad

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Originally Posted by superfly

I shave straight from the 8000, and the razors are jeest fine... But I am waiting for my Itsapeach and Lithide finishing hones to arive, so I will post my impressions...
Nenad

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superfly .. may I ask how your lapping of the lithide hone went ?
I spoke to Tilly about the lithide as mine didn't initially lap to the 'almost mirror finish' After a lot of persiveirance I've got one side mirror smooth - I think my problem may have been the 350 wet n dry . it was maybe a little too harsh .. I then used a carborundum hone and to get the mirror smooth finish - a sheet of glass !!! and a tiny cermaic hone I use for my fountain pen nibs ..
any advice tips on the correct approach would be appreciated .

As for the cautions with too sharp a blade, I have found that to be an oxymoron. It's like "too much beer". For me, at least, the sharper the better. My normal honing routine progresses thusly...Norton 4k, Belgian blue, Norton 8k, Belgian yellow coticule, Shapton 15k pro, .25 micron pasted paddle strop, smooth russian leather hanger. The starting point depends on how far gone the edge is. I haven't noticed any increased tendency for the edge to catch on anything, but I do stretch. I have a few moles that are not flush with the surrounding skin, and with careful stretching, my blades don't even snag on them. I have tried stopping both after the coticule and stopping after the 15k. There is an improvement after the coticule in using the 15k, but the improvement is negligible with the .25 paste over the 15k. I normally hit the .25 for about 30-40 round trips, maybe 50-60 for a stainless blade. I *think* that's enough... I still do the .25 normally, but if I didn't, I'd still be alright. I figure I might as well, since I have the equipment.

Jeff

I guess "too sharp" really depends on the skin sensitivity. I have sensitive skin and when I finished my razors with .25 micron I started to get razor burn irritation.

Backhoning two laps on 8k followed by a couple of regular laps and then going up to .5 micron solved the problem. I did the same for all my razors that were finished on .25 micron.

I no longer use .25 micron since it makes the shaves less pleasant for me.

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Originally Posted by Garry

superfly .. may I ask how your lapping of the lithide hone went ?
I spoke to Tilly about the lithide as mine didn't initially lap to the 'almost mirror finish' After a lot of persiveirance I've got one side mirror smooth - I think my problem may have been the 350 wet n dry . it was maybe a little too harsh .. I then used a carborundum hone and to get the mirror smooth finish - a sheet of glass !!! and a tiny cermaic hone I use for my fountain pen nibs ..
any advice tips on the correct approach would be appreciated .

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Well, the lapping of the Lithide went not so fine. I too didn't got the mirror smooth finish, but somewhat matte, with the feeling to touch between the blue and yellow side of the Norton. I also didn't managed to put mirror finish on the Itsapeech. I was using 1000 wet, on the glass panel... The Itsapeech cost me lot more elbow greese, and was making slurry a little. The Lithide, on the other side, was lapping somewhat faster...

Oh, did I mention I shuttered the Lithide on my bathroom floor? :(

Nenad, -1 Lithide

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Originally Posted by vladsch

I guess "too sharp" really depends on the skin sensitivity. I have sensitive skin and when I finished my razors with .25 micron I started to get razor burn irritation.

Backhoning two laps on 8k followed by a couple of regular laps and then going up to .5 micron solved the problem. I did the same for all my razors that were finished on .25 micron.

I no longer use .25 micron since it makes the shaves less pleasant for me.

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I suppose I'm fairly lucky that I don't have overly sensitive skin. I do have a pretty coarse beard, however, and the extra mile with the 15k and the .25 help the blade mow things down easier on the first pass, especially if I've gone a few days without shaving. After that first pass, it doesn't make as much of a difference. Although I CAN get away with little to no pressure on the blade, even on my chin ~ and those whiskers are very very tough buggers.

Jeff

I got one of the last Honemaster hones from Tilly several months ago. This hone looked somewhat shinny on the surface but when honing you could tell right away that it had the feel / drag of a intermediate or medium grit hone. I used sandpaper starting with 800 grit working all the way up to 1500 grit on a piece of glass to get a real slick feeling finish. I only use this hone wet, either with water or lather. It works so well that I am in no hurry too go out and buy a 4k/8k Norton. I have done this with a Swaty as well with good results, but think the Honemaster is the far superior hone.

Glen

My Honemaster is glassy smooth. Very Fine. But cuts FAST! My Honemaster (or I suspect the Lithide) could give you that smoothed edge feeling you're looking for.

Another thing is the type of steel you are using. If you've got sensitive skin, maybe stainless steel isn't such a great idea. The German blades are great, but my Heljestrand from Sweden is a GREAT blade with a very soft steel with a difference which I can feel. I've got forestryprof Ed's Pipe Razor looking for it's first test shave tomorrow and I suspect by how it honed up that it'll feel the same, soft. Have you tried any of these steels at ultra sharp?

X

Jeff,

You mentioned a russian hanging strop. Brand?

RT

Yesterday I lapped the Itsapeech some more, and discovered that it has upper layer, I guess from baking it, protection and stuff, which you have to remove. Underneath is a very fine, mirror like surface, with fine metallic and orange specs... It is giving me HARD time lapping, and I still have some 30% of the surface to go. It seams like slow cutting hone...

Nenad

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Originally Posted by rtaylor61

Jeff,

You mentioned a russian hanging strop. Brand?

RT

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RT it says "JEMICO" on it. I've had it for probably 10 years or so. I thought I remembered ordering a Dovo strop way back when, but this is what came. Not sure if this is a Dovo or not...?

Jeff

Mr. X I thought the Lithide hones were a charcoal or graphite color. My Honemaster is a light brown or tan like color.

Glen

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Originally Posted by gglockner

Mr. X I thought the Lithide hones were a charcoal or graphite color. My Honemaster is a light brown or tan like color.

Glen

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The Lithide is almost black, and the Itsapeech is cool navy green (I expected peach orange??)

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Originally Posted by gglockner

Mr. X I thought the Lithide hones were a charcoal or graphite color. My Honemaster is a light brown or tan like color.

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So's mine, but these are not the natural Belgian stones or anything where the colour indicates the fineness of the grit. the colours of the barber hones are inconsistent with respect to colours.

X

AFD, I've noticed the same thing about the smoother shaving razors looking a little rougher. I've had razors that I had honed and stropped until under 100x they still looked like a black sheet of glass (VEERRRRY sharp) but were very uncomfortable to shave with, but the same razor looking like the crudely filed edge of an axe (I'm exaggerating of course) shaved quite smoothly.
I'm sure there is more to this story, of course.
On a side note, I LOVE the itsapeech hone for finishing. I've only lapped it against another barber hone, but it is extremely smooth.
I do need to get a new Norton, however, I've managed to crack mine.
John P.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I pretty sure I'm alone here with my sensitive skin but I like working from a duller blade.

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My skin is extremely sensitive. I have a permanent skin cindition and apply medication every day. A duller blade will not help with irritation. It's more likely to increase it. A sharp blade will not produce irritation, but then you have to be careful not to shave off any skin, because that produces skin sensitivity.

When we speak of a blade being too sharp it ususally has to do with the blade getting hung up on every imperfection on your face and cutting you. It would not produce irritation unless you apply too much pressure, use too sharp a blade angle, or shave too agggressively.

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Originally Posted by threeputt

As for the cautions with too sharp a blade, I have found that to be an oxymoron. It's like "too much beer". For me, at least, the sharper the better.

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I'm with you on that. To me it's just a matter of learning the techniqu for the sharper razor.

[/QUOTE] There is an improvement after the coticule in using the 15k, but the improvement is negligible with the .25 paste over the 15k. [/QUOTE] You're just not using the .25 pasted strop enough. A .25 pasted strop is equivalent to 100K grit.