Shapton 15K question

I recently purchased a Shapton pro 15K stone. I used 1200 grit wet sandpaper to "lap" it like I have for other stones. When looking at it at an angle toward a light it looks to be mirror-like as I would expect.
When I run a blade over it, it does not have to smooth feel of the Norton but rather feels a little "bumpy" where I expected it to feel as smooth as glass.
Is there something I am not understanding?
I have also noticed this with other 12K stones as well.
Anyone have any observations or advice before I make another try?

Lap it some more. It will smooth out.

Jeff

Can't say I have.:shrug:

I would also make sure it's VERY clean after lapping. Even the slightest grain from the 1200 grit will cause "bumps".

I had this problem with the Shapton 15K. I switched to the white (gotta be the white) lapping powder from Shaton now and have no problems. I have a lapping plate though, so I'm not sure this would help.

I picked up a used 15k pro awhile back, it had a "pebbly" finish, sort of like a football or basketball. Not that extreme, but it was still there, and I could feel it both with my razor and my fingers. I use a DMT Duosharp EF (about 1200 grit) 11 inch stone to lap all of mine, and it smoothed the 15k right out.

Jeff

Where did you find this beast?

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Originally Posted by bach9135

Where did you find this beast?

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The DMT? Just Google DMT Duosharp and you'll find several sites that carry them. They're not that spendy either. It's a great size to lap all my 8" stones, it even sees the occasional razor when I need to do some major work.

Jeff

I also have a shapton (12000) that I purchased from the japan woodworker. I lapped this stone like I do all of my stones. I used a green DMT. The green is extra fine. This has always worked very well for me but on the shapton came out feeling course in some areas.

My next step was to try lapping the shapton with one of my 8000 grit nortons. This did the trick. I was able to hone my razors on the shaptons without feeling any bumps or grit. This is what works for me.

I also have a nice glass lapping plate but I do not use this for truing my hones. I dont like the idea of emory cloth, no matter how fine, touching my hones. I use the lapping plate for restoring woodworking cutting tools. Such as planes, plane irons and chisels, etc. If I can find out where to get the shapton white lapping powder I just might give it a try.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by glrerun

If I can find out where to get the shapton white lapping powder I just might give it a try.
Good luck!

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Right here.

http://www.shaptonstones.com/stones/...ccessories.php

Thanks korndog. I have just ordered the compact lapping system and the white powder.

OK, since we are at lapping... I received two hones from Tilly, the Lithide and Itsapeech. I went on with the lapping on 1000 sandpaper, and noticed the lapped surface is not so smooth as the non-lapped, manufactured surface... So, on the touch, it is more like between the Norton 4K and 8K sides, and the surface is matte, and not shiny at all... Is this how it's supposed to be?

And the high point of yesterday was (please don't laugh) that at the final strokes lapping the Lithide, it created so much suction on the sandaper, that, when pulling it off, it slipped from my hand, and shattered to pieces at the bathroom floor :(

Nenad

Nenad,
Sorry to hear about the Lithide.

I have found the same thing with barber hones. Being cast they tend to have a glaze, or smooth surface no matter the grit size. Once lapped, that surface glaze is broken and they feel more rough. This has no effect though as the actual grit size has not changed. The pores in the stone open up a bit which may help them cut a little faster as on a Norton 4K.

Tony

Yeah, real bummer... Shipping it across USA, and then across the world for couple of weeks, just to get broken in split second.

Tony, what is your experience with the barber hones? Did you find something from Tilly's selection that is finer than Norton 8K? I hoped it was gonna be the Lithide ot the Itsapeech, but they both seemed rougher (even for that couple of swipes before I start lapping the Lithide). I really like the barber hones format and size...

Nenad

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Originally Posted by glrerun

Thanks korndog. I have just ordered the compact lapping system and the white powder.

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Excellent! Good move.

Try lapping the 12K with your norton 8K. It will get the pretty shapton hone a little yellow but I'd bet it would work better than sand papper.

Many of you know I "trimmed" my Norton a short time ago and the best use of the spare end peice is to clean and surface the main part of the hone. I use the 8K side's on each other and likewise with the 4K sides and it seems to litterly bring the hone back to that "like new" state maybe even a little better than it was new. Of course this wont compensate for unevenness across the hone but once I have the hone nice and flat now I run the spare peice acorss a few times and she's ready to go... I've also used the end peice as sort of a Nagura stone to build up a slurry... really go a head and cut your norton, all the cool kids are doing it ;)

I had a similiar problem with this Shapton stone. Long story short, this stone should not be lapped by anything except maybe a diamond plate. The stone is so dense that anything you lap it with will become embedded in the stone, even the Shapton white lapping powder. Trust me I know, I nearly drove myself nuts getting all of that grit out of the stone. It is an inherent flaw of the stone/lapping system. Sorry you had to find out the hard way. For those that are thinking about purchasing the stone, do not lap it new, it doesn't need it and shouldn't require it. All you need to do to clean it it wet it and wipe off the black smudges with a clean rag.

Another stone I can 100% recommend is the Naniwa 10K at japanwoodworker.com, it is just as fine as the 15K and doesn't have the lapping issues, plus it is cheaper.
Lee

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Originally Posted by pikappa167

Another stone I can 100% recommend is the Naniwa 10K at japanwoodworker.com, it is just as fine as the 15K and doesn't have the lapping issues, plus it is cheaper.
Lee

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I just got my Naniwa and it is amazing. The polish I was able to put on my knives is brilliant. I love the natural stone feel. Unfortunatley, I arleady took a nice sized gouge out of it.

So how do you lap the Naniwa? "Standard" 1200 grit sandpaper or lapping plate or wasabi paste?

Lap it with something coarser, say a 400-600. It's the smaller grits that seem to work their way into the binder of these polish stones. You can use a nagura on this stone to clean/lap it too. This is another no-no with the Shapton 15K in my opinion.

lol! That is the only drawback with the Naniwa, very soft and easily gouged.

I just want to add that I soaked my 12k shapton in water overnight with some other waterstones and I got a big surprise. I know that shapton says the stone will not absorb water, and soaking is not necessary and is ineffective, but I had to experiment.

The results are that after soaking, much (slurry) was washed off. when I pulled the stone out of the water, I had a very fine slurry on my hands and when I rinsed the stone under running water, I could see some slurry in the running water. when the stone was totally clean under running water, I had a very course texture. I will now have to lap this stone again.

Also this stone took the diamond edge off of my DMT. The DMT is now worn out. I guess the ceramic used in the shapton is too hard for the diamond impregnation of the DMT.

I will not purchase anymore of the shapton stones. I am sure I am doing something wrong but this stone is not for me. I will stay with my nortons and belgiums.

I am very interested in other members opinions.

Was the 12K stone you have the half stone? If so, I agree bad stone. I had one, I threw it away.

Don't let that stone mar the pro series of stones, these are very, very good.

Actually, due to the binder in these stones, you are not supposed to soak them at all. Its not that it isn't necessary, it isn't recommended at all, for the reasons you described below.

I have never heard a "horror story" from a natural unless, by some reason, the incorrect natural was chosen.