What can I do with a Coticule?

I've decided it's time to learn to touch up my own razors. I bought a coticule as my weapon of choice and have read just about every article in the Wiki on honing. I can't say that my first attempt is going particularly well, so I've got a couple of questions.

At issue is a 6/8 Le Grelot. One of the ones that are still available through Vintage Blades, Classic Shaving, et al. I noticed the razor getting a tad unsharp. Unfortunately, I didn't test it to see how unsharp it was before trying to hone it. Now it will only shave the hair on my arm at a 20 degree angle or more with a little pressure. It's certainly not popping hair and won't shave at a shallow angle.

First off, I'm wondering if I've blown the bevel and need to start from scratch. All I have is the coticule. Do I need another stone or does it need to go to a honemeister or can I recover with just the coticule? If the latter, any tips?

Secondly, any suggestions on how many laps I should be going between test shaves? Should I be working up a slurry, use lather, just use water or use it dry?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Now wait a sec. Didn't you start out stating you had read up on how to use it?

Can you describe what the razor was doing before you started working on it and can you describe what you did to it?

The Coti should be just fine for the job.

I'm going to suggest a long route, just because. I would start with 10 laps with no slurry, test shave, and again, 10 laps with no slurry, test shave. Reevaluate, then 10 laps with slurry followed by 10 laps with no slurry.

So, once again. What could it do before you started honing it.

Bart's coticuleBE website here has detailed instructions on honing with a coticule here. If Alan's excellent suggestions don't work out well for you give Bart's tutorials a read. :gl:

Yeah, we really need a little more information about what you actually did. Slurry on a coticule has a dulling effect on a shave ready razor. In fact, you can set a bevel on a Coticule. It takes a bit of understanding (understanding the slurry and dilution strategy) to use a coticule effectively, but it certainly can be used as a one and only stone (assuming you don't have any restorative honing to do - which should likely be sent out anyway).

It sounds like all you intended to do was refresh the blade slightly. Be aware, that this can take many more laps that you might think, and is usually only done with water, not slurry.

See the wiki, and in particular the part about finishing with a coticule : A simple honing method with DMT-E, Belgian Blue Whetstone and Coticule - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I recently acquired a coticule and refreshed a blade on it. Did 100 laps with water only - just let the weight of the razor sit flat on the hone, and put no pressure on it at all. Was very happy with the results.

As others have said, if you used slurry, you have most likely made it worse, rather than better. Suggest you check the sharpness on your arm, then do 20 laps and check again - repeat until you can feel a marked difference. Ive only suggested 20 laps because if you do 100 wrong, its going to take a lot more work to fix your mistakes. :)

Anyway, thats what I would do - others will have different methodologies for using the coticule, so try them all and use whatever you find works best for you.

Thanks for your replies guys. This helps a lot. As I mentioned, unfortunately I didn't test it before I tried touching it up. Rookie mistake. All I can say is it was pulling and tugging and yielding an unpleasant shave. My other razor was significantly better and this razor was yielding better results before, so I am confident it wasn't shave technique (or at least not entirely, I am still new at all of this).

In terms of reading up, I've frankly been a bit confused because everything I've read takes you from setting a bevel through shave ready. It may seem like a no brainer to someone who's been around the block once or twice, but to a complete newb it can be difficult to pull out just the piece you need.

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mbrossar

In terms of reading up, I've frankly been a bit confused because everything I've read takes you from setting a bevel through shave ready. It may seem like a no brainer to someone who's been around the block once or twice, but to a complete newb it can be difficult to pull out just the piece you need.

Thanks again.

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I think the thing that may have hurt is what level of honing you tried to do. If the razor was just tugging a bit, or maybe just "less sharp" than when it was professionally honed it would have needed a touch up only. If you started at the steps for setting a bevel, you most likely have taken it back to square 1 requiring full honing in order to be shave ready again.

If you tell exactly what steps you took, the guys here will be able to give you more specific information that will help you out.


As for what you can do with the coticule... well, I'll be more specific... what can be done with a coticule, IME it is possible to do every step of honing with a coticule (I have done it a few times just to test it, but that isn't how I do it every time). But, as with every other honing method it takes some know how. If you don't have the know how or the skill, it really doesn't matter what rock you rub your razor on.

Good luck
Dave

Go to coticule.be you be able to get all the help and info. Bart will do you a free honing ,i also would then you can experiance the shave from a well honed razor on just coticule. Then you no what can be achieved and what to aim for your self

I think the piece of the puzzle I'm missing is whether you honed with or without a slurry.

Its possible you messed up the bevel balance, but I'd be at a loss to know if you had or not.

If you suspect you may have honed with more pressure in one direction than another I would try stropping the razor and let us know if one side feels different in any way. These are usually very complicated corrections.

Otherwise, if you made the mistake of using a slurry for a touch up, I'd suggest just honing a bit without a slurry. I would do up to 60 passes to see if I could correct the problem, and lighten the touch as you go.

From what I can imagine, the confusing part about coti's is the slurry and how it effects the edge. Slurry on a coti will remove metal faster than with out slurry but has a counter effect on the sharpness. The more slurry, the faster metal is removed but the edge looses sharpness as the slurry rounds the edge.

Coti's take some time to learn on so you may need to repeat this several times till you get the edge you like.

1) start with a light slurry and a bit of pressure. Do around 20 laps, edge leading.
2) add a few DROPS of water to dilute the slurry and do another bunch of laps, around 20 with less pressure.
3) More DROPS of water, more laps, less pressure
4) Repeat step 3 till you do several steps with water only and only the weight of the blade on the hone.

The lap count and pressure are not a dependable gauge to go by as they differ by the condition of the razor, the particular coti being used and the honer's experience. The slurry should be like milk in color and consistency. When you finish honing with just water test shave. If it is not where you want the edge in sharpness you need to go back to the coti. If the edge is close, just use water, no slurry. Laps count, your guess. You can't over hone on a coti. If the edge is less than close repeat the steps above starting with a lighter slurry than the time before. This may take you a bunch of tries because you are learning the hone and your technique but you'll get there. Be sure to keep the blade, edge and spine flat on the hone. If you lift the spine you may set yourself back a bit. Be patient, be observant to the feel, sounds and appearance of your honing and have fun.

Guys, thanks for all of your input. This has been a big help. I guess while I read some, I didn't read enough. Special thanks to the directions to coticule.be. Not sure how I missed this. :banghead: It is very well written and would have saved me some mistakes had I read it first. I understand the coti process much better now. Well, alas, I am a newb and I am learning.

With respect to the bad things I've done, yes, I tried to touch up my blade with slurry. The good news is, I'll never do that again.

Following Wedward's advice, I took a hundred or so laps with just water (20 laps at a time). I am seeing noticeable improvement. I think I've got more work to do, but I think it's coming around.

In retrospect, I think the biggest issue I had was figuring out where to jump into the process when touching up a blade. I guess part of it's experience knowing just how unsharp or dull the blade is and how much work is required. Again, I'm learning. I've also certainly learned when to use slurry and when not to.

Bottom line, I am certainly glad this forum exists and that you guys are so responsive in your advice so that folks like me can learn this stuff. Kudos to Lynn et al for the vision and commitment to this site.
:mexwave:

When i got my first coticule two years a go i touched up my razor with a slurry. I could not even shave arm hair i thought what!. Then some one told me to do 100 laps with water. The razor was much better not as shave ready as i would of liked. Thats were the diluting comes in between. Water alone will not undue the slurry dulling you caused in the first place. Diluting the slurry gradualy will in crease the keeness nicley water will polish even better . I now produce the smoothest edges ever using two very good coticules. I use one for setting my bevel as it cut's extremly fast. My other coticule is great finisher i use this to refine and polish. It took alot of trial and error before i could get magical edges of the coticule but it was worth it. Just keep practicing you will see. Barts coticule.be and his experiance has been a god sent with out it i would never of achieved these kind of edges.