Help! I can't get it sharp.

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and it is great to be here. I have been wet shaving for many years using a vintage red tip and Dovo shavette with Crystal blades. I have been very happy until Christmas day when my wife bought me a gorgeous 'pre-sharpened" Dovo snakewood 5/8 stainless with Thuyawood scales from classicshaving. It was my first real straight. I stropped it 30 strokes on a paddle with fine leather then went to work, however it was an extremely uncomfortable shave and pulled very badly. When I called classic shaving to explain what happened, they told me to send it to their sharpening service for a complimentary sharpening. After I received it back, it was better but no where near the sharpness of a Crystal blade. I decided to purchase my own tools and try it myself. I refuse to use water stones because of cleanup, convenience, and I don't want to get into lapping stones. So, after much research, I decided on a set of Spyderco ceramic stones in all three grits (all extremely flat) and a balsa bench hone with Chromox. I also purchased a 4 sided paddle strop with 3 micron DMT dia-paste, 1 micron Amplex, 1/2 micron Amplex, and Chromox. No matter what I did, I could not get it better. I used the pasted strop exclusively with no improvement. I also used the stones exclusively, with no improvement. I used a combination of stones and pastes...no matter what I did, I could not get this thing sharp. Am I using the wrong tools? Every time I think that it is me, then I remember that the sharpening service couldn't get it sharp enough for me either. I am not looking for feather sharpness, just a standard DE blade sharpness. Here is an upload of my tools. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Ron

It is possible that it is already DE-sharp, and your problem is not with the sharpness, but with using it. Or it is possible that it isn't.
In my opinion the best course of action is to see if you can find somebody experienced with straight razor shaving near you.

I don't know anything about your hones, but my balsa piece with chromium oxide doesn't look anywhere as green as yours.

What are you doing for preshave?

If you try to use the spyderco ultra fine like a water stone and do many passes you will probably over sharpen the blade and get a wire edge every time. The edge will feel sharp as you start to use it then it will start pulling as the wire edge breaks off.


Silver2

I don't know if I could get it that sharp either. The blade, to me, looks as dull as a butter knife. I could probably get the razor shaving sharp with any one of the tools you are describing, but your pushing to get an edge that close is a tough requirement.

I can only offer to hone, evaluate it, and send it back. I agree that you should find someone close and bring all the equipment with you.

is that a 302UF / 2k grit youre using as a finisher
(seems werry coarse to me)

How many strokes did you use on each hone ? Did you make sure to hold the razor flat on the hone ,and use an "X" pattern stroke ? How much pressure were you putting on the edge when you were honing ? These are some of the things you need to consider .

Spyderco rates the 302UF at 2k but it certainly does not behave like a 2K. It's certainly more fine than a Norton 8K and it works reasonably well as a finisher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJ72

I am not looking for feather sharpness, just a standard DE blade sharpness. Here is an upload of my tools. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

Ron

---

Ron this is your problem.
your blade will not get DE sharpness ether.
But it will get sharpness which by using it you could get comfortable shave.
Now i am not sure where is your blades sharpness at the moment. i would suggest try to work on your technique.
send your blade to be sharpened again and start to using scything motion.
lets say if you start to using straight now and very fast learner you will get DE similar shave after at least 3 months. took me 6 months.
your stones is ok but not the best.
hope this helps

Quote:

---

I am not looking for feather sharpness, just a standard DE blade sharpness.

---

None of the shave ready razors I have received from three of the best honemeisters here on SRP were as sharp as a DE blade. That being said, they were very nicely honed blades, and shaved nicely.

I think it is misleading to compare the sharpness, or the shave characteristics of a straight razor vs a DE blade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJ72

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and it is great to be here. I have been wet shaving for many years using a vintage red tip and Dovo shavette with Crystal blades.
.....
I stropped it 30 strokes on a paddle with fine leather then went to work, however it was an extremely uncomfortable shave and pulled very badly. When I called classic shaving to explain what happened, they told me to send it to their sharpening service for a complimentary sharpening. After I received it back, it was better but no where near the sharpness of a Crystal blade.
.....

---

A Feather/Crystal blade is a tough act to follow.

Did you say you shaved with it out of the box
from ClassicShaving? It should have been
well stropped and ready to go out of the box.
Just rinse in hot water and shave.

If the blade was sharp as it should have been twice it should
only need to be stropped for half a dozen or more shaves.
i.e. The hones should gather dust for a month and then
only the finest hone might be called for.

If the angle is too open (back too high) it is possible that
the edge rolled on your whiskers. If this is only a minor thing
then canvas followed by leather can recover it. If not then
four or five trips on a very fine touch up hone should. If no canvas
then five trips on CrOx... followed by leather.

Paddle stropping -- I will let others comment other than
a light touch -- think feather edge only sweeping invisible crumbs.
Set the back down first then the edge and pull.

Thanks guys. To answer some of your questions...I first tape the spine with 1 layer of electrical tape. I then use very light pressure using X pattern. No shifting of pressure at all. I did 10 strokes on the medium followed by 12 on fine then 12 on ultra fine. Then I stropped on the balsa with chromox 20 strokes and finished on leather without tape for 30. I guess I am over honing like one member mentioned.

. . . and the pictures were taken before honing?

Straights not as sharp as a Feather = TOTAL BS imho!

I shaved exclusively with Feather Platinums before switching to straights, heck I used to shave with Feather's using "the method" style of lathering too.

I have a few straights now that are definitely as sharp or sharper imho then a Feather, perhaps just way way smoother, and the shave I get with them is great.

Now a straight razors edge is much more delicate imho as well, meaning it takes much less to damage or dull a straight then a machined DE blade as well.

I say why did you immediately think it was the straight and not your technique I mean you stated you were using a shavette in the past and not a straight, so have you read the wiki and watched the strop videos to get an idea on proper technique.

Did I miss something here?

My advice, send it to Lynn or Glenn for honing, and see how you do after that.

David

AFDavis11...yes the pictures were after honing.

Sirshavesalot...Yes, I have watched every video there is including Mr. Lynn Abrams DVD. I am not assuming at all that it is the razors fault. I just figured that since classic shaving sent it to me twice not sharp, it was worth posting a thread. I'm sure they have professionals working on their razors. I would send it in a third time, but I wonder if third time is a charm.

Even if I sent it in, I really would like to be able to get it done with the tools that I have. I really appreciate all of your input so far. Thanks.

I just have to repeat what everyone told me when I thought my professionaly honed razor wasn't sharp: "It's your technique". And, lo and behold... they were right. Everyone of 'em!
I went from KAI SE blades to a straight and I still can't come close, wwaayyyy more comfy, but not as quite as close. But i now recognize that my razor was, and still is, WICKED sharp. Seems every newbie thinks the razor isn't sharp. Though it may, by now, not be. If you question the store that sold is ablilty,t' just try sending it to someone else.
And, from one noob to another, get a different blade to practice honing on, keep one as a benchmark.

BTW, that's a great hone set. The ultra fine is said to be the equivalent of 14k. Try your finishing passes with a few drops of dish-soap/water. This was suggested to me elsewhere, and I find it works really well.

Did you also strop the edge before shaving the second time Classic honed it?

I'd follow the suggestions already given. i.e. First method: trying to find someone locally to hone it in person on your equipment. Second method: send it out for sharpening and then shave with it without stropping; then see if the next shave is better (or equal) after you strop it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJ72

I am not assuming at all that it is the razors fault. I just figured that since classic shaving sent it to me twice not sharp

---

These two statements contradict each other. If you say the razor is not sharp, then you are saying it is the razor's fault that you are not getting good shaves.

I don't know anything about Classic's honing (I've only had one razor pre-honed from them ever), but if you don't think they are honing your razor properly, all you can really do is send it to someone else. I second the suggestion above to send it to Lynn or Glen. They are two of the best honers out there (that I know of). I would caution you, however, not to be shocked if you get the razor back from them (or any other reputable honer) and find the results are the same.

I agree with everyone else, but would also add the razor appears poorly honed.

Not a very good picture, but the way I look at it; if the razor looks poorly honed to me from here, chances are it'll still look bad closer up.

Used optics yet?

The offer still stands to check out the razor. I assume you have several more razors to work on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

These two statements contradict each other. If you say the razor is not sharp, then you are saying it is the razor's fault that you are not getting good shaves.

I don't know anything about Classic's honing (I've only had one razor pre-honed from them ever), but if you don't think they are honing your razor properly, all you can really do is send it to someone else. I second the suggestion above to send it to Lynn or Glen. They are two of the best honers out there (that I know of). I would caution you, however, not to be shocked if you get the razor back from them (or any other reputable honer) and find the results are the same.

---

Isn't Lynn Still doing the honing for Classic? I know he used to, he would have o be the one to tell us though.

OP I hate to say it but it wasn't the razor. It was you. The thing was easily sharp enough to give you a really good comfortable shave. The problem is that a real straight is a completely different animal from a shavette and need different techniques. The angle must be more precise, the prep must be better, the hold must be firmer, the pressure on the skin must be less. In my mind a DE is like a tricycle, a shavette is like having training wheels and a real straight not only takes the training wheels off but in some ways jumps you right to a ten speed.

At this point I would send it out yet again to have the chain put back on and the tires pumped up to the correct pressure. Once you get it back it will be ready to go so you can start to develop all your skills in order to get a great shave. My real straights never slip right through the hair the way a shavette does but they all leave a perfectly smooth shave and are somehow well smoother on my face, less harsh, than my shavette.

Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wildtim

Isn't Lynn Still doing the honing for Classic? I know he used to, he would have o be the one to tell us though.

---

Lynn did make an announcement somewhere on this site... I don't remember where, though. He is no longer honing for Classic.

Ok, I didn't know. Missed that one.

Thanks everyone. If you read my post carefully, you would see that I said that it was NOT the razor's fault. But getting back to my original post...do I have the proper sharpening tools? I know there are better water stones, but I don't want to purchase a Norton and learn to lap it and deal with the inconvenience as well as a Belgian Coticule or Chinese 12k as finishing stones. I can't afford a Shapton Glass or other expensive finishing options. I just figured that what I have is affordable with no maintenance to worry about. Since I am new to this forum, could someone direct me on how to send it in to Lynn. Thank you all for all of your input.

I use the three spydercos that you have exclusively and get very sharp edges on many different razors. However, I use many more strokes than you do. I don't see a distinct bevel on your blade which is easy to do with the medium but requires at least 20 round trips. The same number is true of the fine and uf. Your blade is sharp enough when you are getting effortless shaves. Taping is not necessary and will alter the geometry of your razor over repeated honing.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJ72

Thanks everyone. If you read my post carefully, you would see that I said that it was NOT the razor's fault. But getting back to my original post...do I have the proper sharpening tools? I know there are better water stones, but I don't want to purchase a Norton and learn to lap it and deal with the inconvenience as well as a Belgian Coticule or Chinese 12k as finishing stones. I can't afford a Shapton Glass or other expensive finishing options. I just figured that what I have is affordable with no maintenance to worry about. Since I am new to this forum, could someone direct me on how to send it in to Lynn. Thank you all for all of your input.

---

click this link it will take you strait to Lynn's add
Honing By Lynn, Founder of SRP - Straight Razor Place Classifieds

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RJ72

Thanks guys. To answer some of your questions...I first tape the spine with 1 layer of electrical tape. I then use very light pressure using X pattern. No shifting of pressure at all. I did 10 strokes on the medium followed by 12 on fine then 12 on ultra fine. Then I stropped on the balsa with chromox 20 strokes and finished on leather without tape for 30. I guess I am over honing like one member mentioned.

---

IMHO you didn't need to use the tape . If you're inexperienced honing straight razors , and you think you're using "light" pressure , you're most likely using too much .

I never saw this post until I did a search on a different topic, but I have the same blade and from the Photo in this post, the blade was not honed properly and looks very dull. It needs the help of a honemeister help to restore its edge and performance. For this blade, I had to use a double honing session to get it honed just right and it is one sweet shaver that likes to hold its edge for a long time. I recall honing it and it looking good, but the shave was a little too rough, so I rehoned it and it felt like a completely different shaver - what a difference!

Taking on this blade as a first to hone seems a bit challenging and its such a nice straight razor. Hopefully, it got honed and is performing well. If not, PM me and I will help.

Pabster