Kitchen knives on razor hones?

Hi everyone,

I'm starting to look at hones, not necessarily for my razors now, I'm going to wait until I'm proficient with just shaving before moving on to honing the razor too. That being said, I'm looking at the Norton set on Amazon (220/1K/4K/8K).

My question is this: do any of the members here sharpen kitchen knives on their razor hones? Probably just down to 1K mayyybe 4K. On the one hand, a hone is a hone and there's no reason they shouldn't be able to handle both types of blades, given the appropriate angles, etc. But would a kitchen knife distort the surface of the hone faster? Or somehow cause uneven wear?

Thanks very much!
Greg

i have head that there will be a killer set comming soon from a big player in hones

if your are looking for now the 1k 4k 8k are great if you can deal with the 4k beign a hi ware hone (not sure abot the 1k as i have not used it )

any think in am not planning on honing by hand in do on the belt grinder but i stil hand hone kitchen blades now and then per askig up to 12-16K

I know some guys hone chef's knives on waterstones. I suspect you would have to lap them more often and certainly before taking a razor to them following a kitchen knife.

i know nothing of hones.. but i worked as a professional chef for many years and used to sharpen my own knives.. i've known guys to sharpen with extremely fine hones and end up with razor sharp knives.. mainly fish mongers and sushi guys..

IIRC DwarvenChef hones his knives. He will probably see this thread and respond with his experience.

Dwarvenchef isn't feeling well, we left him back at the hotel, they sent me along as a surrogate poster... :medvl:

Ok so I'm in a weird mood tonight :p

I started off with my kitchen knives and water stones years before I found straight razors. As far as the Norton's you mentioned they will do just fine with your kitchen knives, provided your using the right steel. Yes the steel matters, let me explain... And yes you will need to keep up on your flattening skills.

If you are using Henkels, Wusthof, and the like (Western style) you don't need to go very high on the grit charts. Reason being that the edge doesn't have enough hardness to support that fine an edge. Not to mention the skill set that goes with western style knives, it's to hard on fine edges.

If you get into harder steel or Japanese knives then you can use all those stones and get extremely fine edges that will last due to the hardness of the steel.

Does that mean you can't polish a Wusthof? No not at all, just that the steel it to soft to support a thin edge. Think of western knives as that 3/4 ton pick up that you can beat the hell out of and it keep on getting the job done. It's not pretty and it bangs thing up a bit but thats the trade off. The hard steel and Japanese knives are that little sports car, very fast, maneuverable, nimble, and flashy. But isn't good for abuse, they break with hard treatment. Both knives get you where you need to go but they have different paths and skill sets in their operation.

I don't sharpen other cooks knives (western) past 1200, it's just not needed. I do polish up above the edge so that the blade slides threw much easier, so even when the edge slows down at the end of the day it still doesn't take much force to cut well.

Hope I didn't loose you there, I tend to get a bit chatty on these subjects :p If you need anything else Ask away :)

forgive me for going slightly off topic.. but i have seen photos of dwarven slicing sushi grade tuna and i was wondering which knives you use for this purpose?

i'm mainly a shoemaker who posts up as a saucier.. so i think the sharpest knife i own is a kyocera ceramic i use for fast prep..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vthomlinson

forgive me for going slightly off topic.. but i have seen photos of dwarven slicing sushi grade tuna and i was wondering which knives you use for this purpose?

i'm mainly a shoemaker who posts up as a saucier.. so i think the sharpest knife i own is a kyocera ceramic i use for fast prep..

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That pic was taken at the West Coast meeting of a bunch of nuts from the Knife Forums "In the Kitchen". The knife being used is a custom job from Watanabe Japanese chef kitchen knife, cooking knife, sushi knife, custom Japanese knife: watanabeblade.com . Sweet knife, not mine :p I like darker knives lol.

Yeah I think you could but I would not go any higher than 220 simply for what your useing the knife for.. Your cutting fruit, veggies, meats or what ever with these they do not need the edge that your straight razor does infact you can actually do more damage to the knife by making it that sharp -- the first 3 to 4 cuts will be awsome yet once that steel rolls over you will probably spend a lot of time getting it out -- the other issue is the stone that you spent your hard earned money for getting "dish" and you having to lap it down for your razor which depending on how much you sharpen will depend on how long it lasts -- water stones are softer than oil stones -- 3rd option you might want to concider is sanding while this is NO GOOD for a straight razor it is exellent for a kitchen knife 1" belt sander with a gum stick and a 220 belt a little practice and you can churn out upwards of 75 kitchen knives in about 45min. also this is how buck, k bar etc. edge there knives initally as well as almost any grind shop I know this is long winded but hope it helps

best of luck
Word

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

That pic was taken at the West Coast meeting of a bunch of nuts from the Knife Forums "In the Kitchen". The knife being used is a custom job from Watanabe Japanese chef kitchen knife, cooking knife, sushi knife, custom Japanese knife: watanabeblade.com . Sweet knife, not mine :p I like darker knives lol.

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a very impressive blade.. far beyond my skills as an old frenchie cook :)

Wow, thanks for the response everyone!

DwarvenChef, I have a basic steel, and use it religously, but if you have any brand/material suggestions, I'd love to hear them. I have Western style Tramontinas, so I won't be taking them to scary sushi sharp. How far down the grit chart would you recommend for an amateur cook? If it's just down to 1K, (or even just 220) then my kitchen knives and razors probably won't be even touching the same hones. Definitely don't want to roll the edge.

And thanks for pointing out the belt sander idea, Word. I've sharpened utility knives, etc that way...I just feel a bit more protective of my kitchen knives. And I kinda like the idea of honing them by hand. (And I'm not worried about losing my grip and ending up with one toe less at all, lol!)

Thanks again,
Greg

Kitchen knives on razor hones is no problem at all. I started taking my knives on my Jnaturals and I am loving the results.
your synthetic hones will dish much faster so expect faster wear, but even if you would do only knife sharpening the stones will last many many years.

For regular cooking purposes more than 1k edge is an over kill.

I admit I over overkill by using Asagi as last stone in my progression, but this allows to skip CrO strop and I think wire edge issues are taken care of.

On a western style blade I still like the high carbon option as there are ALLOT of low carbon steel out there. The higher carbon helps in edge retention and sharpening.

Personally, unless you are skilled at the belt sander and familier with tempers of knife steel, stay away from the belt sander. Very easy to burn a blade and it happens FAST.

As for what grit to take a blade to is purely personal and depends greatly on the end product you want to produce. If you are up to experimenting, you can check the cellular damage done at different grits. 220 an apple turns mushy very quicky, same with just about everything else that edge cuts or saws as the case may be. A 220 edge will also last a bit longer if your bevels are set all the same.

a 1000 grit edge causes less cellular damage thus your food will hold longer, but you risk a shorter life span of that edge as the teeth are much smaller. So the use of a steel and rehoning daily (something you can't get away from on most western knives) is something you have to consider.

By comparison I polish my Hiromoto AS gyuto up to 8k and use about a 16deg bevel and don't have to worry about the edge for weeks, provided I take care not to beat the hell out of it :p My cuts will also stay fresher for days, not hours.

Steel types again are personal prefference, they all have a nitch they are great at but in general they all do the job. That said... I hate stainless with a passion :p 9 times out of 20 I can get better results out of a carbon blade. But thats a personal issue and there are many MANY people that get very good results with their stainless knives. It boils down to what you expect to get out of them and what you want to put into it.

Can a Wusthof cut sushi, sure but the results will be lacking terribly and forget holding that fish more than a few minutes before it starts falling apart. But it will work that rack of BBQ ribs with gusto and not bet damaged much if it bounces off a bone or two. So the choices are up to the individual as to what they want from their knives and what they are willing to put into it :)

I use my hones with both razors and kitchen knives but tools as well. In my opinion it is ok. Of course there are some coarse hones i use with tools only, and my highest grits, C12k and barber hone are for razors only.

I have taken my C12K to my kitchen knives mostly
to polish the bevel which makes them cut a lot
smoother. I also keep my worst barber hone
in the kitchen...

I rarely go past 1200, usually settling on 600 as an all-around finisher for many knives. I touch up on the same 600 mesh or a small ceramic or smooth steel. Hone dishing isn't a problem since I use mostly diamond hones. Many knife hones are easy to keep flat, anyway.