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I am a slow learner. last night I learned a lesson that I should have learned a long time ago. When using a finishing stone, do just five laps and then put the razor down and walk away.
I used to give in to the nagging thought that if five laps is good, then more must be better. Doesn't work that way. I have found the hardest part of razor honing is knowing when to leave well enough the hell alone.
5 laps then walk away? Why not 5 laps then check your edge? I say hone till you're satisfied the edge is sharp and polished.
Every blade is different and has different needs, this is the way to go when finishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpy52
+1 excellent point.+every finishing stone is different too.glQuote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
I should clarify what I said above. I'm not very good at interpreting edge tests. I can hone a razor so that it will cut off arm hairs at just a touch, which would be great if this was what the razor was meant for, but it's not. The only test I can really quantify the results is the shave test. For me that is with full prep and lather. Or else I'm not really certain how the edge will perform.
In the past I have done five laps on a finishing stone, then being unable to do a full shave test, I would give it a couple more laps just for good luck. The best results I have had lately are when I do just five laps on the finishing stone and then put it down.
If the shave wasn't that great I would go back to the hones the next day.
Lynn may be able to hone many razors in one day, but I would rather take many days to hone one razor and get it right.
Don't feel bad, my weakness is NOS & restored blades. I have a tough time getting the edge "perfect" the first time, every time. I try to take the minimalist approach since I hone sans tape, so there are times I don't go long enough on the cutting stones setting the bevel. I reconfirmed this on a couple NOS razors that I am adding to my rotation, a Case & Dorko. They shave, but aren't quite right... I'll probably give them both another shave to know exactly how far back I'll have to go.
I have no problem bringing a egde back on a dulled shaver though. I just hate having to "redo" a freshly honed razor, gives me a sense of failure & who likes failure?
Nathan
please tell us what stones do you use? what is your finishing stone?
If you can, why not hone right before you shave? Time might be a problem, though. Especially if you shave in the morning. Just a thought.
I use a Naniwa 3000/8000 and for a finishing stone I use a Sharpton 12000. On a Taylor's Eye Witness that wasn't shaving well, I recently gave it 15 laps on the 3000, another 15 on the 8000 and five on the 12000. That made it a lot easier to handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
I'm a slow learner too. I'm going to try and describe what I do. I think of these tips as honing strategies. Honing is, for the most part, just a "muscle memory" repeated effectively, but . . .
I circular hone on the finish stone, then finish with several strokes, keeping count as I go, and work toward a maximum number to achieve the highest possible sharpness. If I go too far I circular hone again setting the edge back to a consistent baseline, then sharpen again. This time I do fewer strokes than the last time, stopping just shy of where I landed the last time.
One of the things Lynn told me in chat one night after my volunteering the info that I had endured some poor quality shaves just to see a bit more of what the edge could manage is quite simple: No need to do that! You should know on the first stroke what is gonna happen.
Sometimes my cheeks might fool me, but not around the lips.
maybe it is not so bad that you really need to stop, and each day you hone a little to see if it is better or not to find the limit.
However, if you start with some tough whiskers and you know it can be better why not add those five on the spot, shave either directly from the hone or with very, very few strap laps for good measure; I'm pretty sure you will eventually hit a sweet spot where it is the same, the same, the same.
By going directly from hone to face you can test only the hone, later you can see what more the strop adds, so if you loose anything at all; you will know it was the strap, not that it needs more honing-which it will but that not why-that it was not first honed enough.
Now i agree with above words.Your final finishing stone is shapton and it will act exactly how you feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndw76
if you make more laps on 12k it will break down the edge and you will have harsh shave.
great learning curve. you are good to go. gl
why is that, sham? I dont have shaptons, so I dont know them. why is it that the shapton will break down the age after more than a few laps?
I try to get others to hone my razors whenever I can get away with it :)
Sorry, carry on..
sharpening stones when they made don't meant to solely for straight razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijbil
Razor edge get so thin and fragile if you do the right sharpening process before 16k example when you get to the 16k level your edge is shave ready.
when you start to make strokes on 16k it takes no more then 5-10 strokes(depends on quality of the blade) edge start to having chips.
all above is true if you have done right honing process on lower level grit stones.
hope this helps.
sham - but why does the edge start to break down (or "have chips") after 5-10 laps (or whatever) - why does the edge start to break down after it's ready, or even at *any point*? Also, is this something unique to shaptons, and if so why?
After it is ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijbil
Yes i have noticed on shaptons i cannot say to any other stones.
sharpening of the blade(metal i will try be as simple as i can).
Depends mainly from 2 factors.
size of the particles against the metal will move and joining compound that particular join together.
Again when factory shapton made that stone didn't mean solely for straight razor. their market was many other products knifes,axes etc.
that is why straight razor edge is fragile for shapton 16k to make it more fine.
(please do understand shapton will act like this if you have done your job on lower level stones)
In fact i had case if you stay above 5k level more then you should shaptons all will break down the edge.(chips will form).
Let me clear this more.
if you stay on 8k and just sharpen your blade in some point edge will start to having chips.
hope this helps and answers your questions.
Nathan;
I am lucky I get to visit Sham and Kelly and learn all the secrets of honing and finishing a str8 razor edge. There are many variables involved between steel and stone. It can be frustrating trying to get that perfect edge and therein lays the challenge.
It’s OK to put it down and come back later. Like most things learned, practice makes perfect. That's the fun part.
Have a nice day :)
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mijbil
The stone was made for tools other than razors, chisels, planes and etc. Those need to be sharp but not razor sharp with a fine edge.
Ok - but what is differetn about the stone (physically, technically)? And what exactly is causing this break-down?Quote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
Would a Coti degrade the edge in the same way after more than five laps? Or would this depend on a number of variables, type of razor, exact nature of the stone, nature of that particular steel, etc?