honing razor

So, I certainly need to send my razor in for professional honing. But since I've already butched my razor from trying to hone it myself, I figure that I might as well try again with some assistance while I'm still looking for a professional in town. I've done some reading on setting the bevel and sharpening, and though I'm sure there's still much I don't know, the thing that's giving me the most trouble is an incongruency across the blade. What I mean is, this: the middle portion of the blade becomes sharper(determined by arm hair test) than both the heel and point area. Also, though this may not be an issue, if I put the blade straight up with the edge facing down, the point and heel area are slightly raised so as to not touch the ground though the middle does. But this may be the design of all straight razors. My razor is a square type by the way. This also may go along with the first thing I mentioned, but I did a magic marker test, and the middle portion gets shaved off with fewer strokes than the point and heel. I tried to fix this by simply sharpening just the point and heel(bit more difficult) but I either didn't do it long enough or I messed up in some other way. If I can just solve this problem, than I think I can handle the rest. Sort of, I'm still not sure how I am supposed to know when I have the best bevel set, is it dependent on how well it passes the arm-hair test? Anyway, any advice and instruction would be greatly appreciated. Oh and, I have two nortion water stones: a 250/1000 grit and a 4000/8000 grit.

Although the razor may be a square point the blade itself sounds like it is a smiling blade, you will have to use a scything stroke (semi circular) with the heel leading.

Try to post on honing section in that case you will get more help.
what you are describing is a smile face blade.
it will a lot easier if we see pictures of the blade . Check the spine of the blade and see which parts has more hone wear.
if it is even spine wear i doubt it then you can make circular motion honing and sharp the blade.
i would suggest stay on 1k norton until you see you have set bevel from heel to tip.
After that you can move on for higher grit stone.
It will be better if you are learning to hone start learning in bad shape ebay blades.
in fact full smiling blade is hardest one and you are trying to learn how to on this blade is kinda tough jump.
In the other hand if you do too much damage it will be more work to next person to fix the problem.
Easy way will be send this one for honing and you try to learn on cheap blades.
hope this helps.

you tryed the marker test with 45 degree x swooping x and rolling x ?
if your looking for a honemeister in town i suggest stating what town your from

Hello, I've moved your thread into the honing forum where, as hi_bud noted, it will get more attention. Here is a 1961 barber manual excerpt that may be helpful in dealing with that blade profile. You might also check out the 'rolling x' in the SRP Wiki here.

Thanks for the advice and instruction so far everybody. Here are some pictures. Hope they help. I was checking the edge again and I'm not so sure if it's actually a smiling blade. Sometimes I get the impression that the middle is a bit more raised than the heel and point. I'm basically lost at this point.

look like that blade got more then one issue
the heel is starting to interfere with the edge hard to tell if it creating a raise yet but it does need to be rounded off a bit
And if you continue as you have it will probably develop a frown
I do believe the barber manual is exsplaining about indusing a smile so you may want to check that out

That looks like it has a slight frown to it. IE: the blade is wider at the heel and the toe than it is in the middle.

You might find that making contact with the edges of the hone helps here. So instead of making contact with the middle of the hone, you're getting contact with the edges as you make your X stroke.

i'd say it looks like a frown ,that not a smily by the looks of it

Have been mention already it is frown blade.
how to fix.
Easiest way(in my mind) is.
tape spine of the blade exact size of the smallest portion of the edge?
what i mean.
you will need to tape in this case middle of the blade. size of the tape should match(will better if a little smaller then size of the frown.)
Start honing on 1k level until you will get even hone wear on the spine of the blade.
Don't pay attention to the edge. it is larger smaller means nothing so far.
As soon as you get even spine hone wear you will see your edge will even up.
gl

I'm still a bit confused by the advice. How will I know if the spine has even wear? By the magic marker test? Also, I'm still unsure on how to know how much tape to put. Also, looking at the pictures, I think it seems like the blade is frowning more on one side than the other. If that's so, what do I do about this?

hold the razor on a table edge down to find out where the frown is worse
then maybe 3/4" lenght on tape centered on the deepest part

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Originally Posted by eagentebuddy

I'm still a bit confused by the advice. How will I know if the spine has even wear? By the magic marker test? Also, I'm still unsure on how to know how much tape to put. Also, looking at the pictures, I think it seems like the blade is frowning more on one side than the other. If that's so, what do I do about this?

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Magic marker test is for the edge to make sure your blade's edge is touching the stone.
you watch the spine and see how much spine wear you have. IN your case middle of your blades spine wear at the moment is more then tip,heel.
what you do is this. you use 1 layer of electric tape and tape the more wear location of the spine.(middle portion of your blade , you tape spine not edge)
Basically what you do is you protect more honed spine.Not to get wear down more.
then you use 1k level stone and hone. while you hone you do check frequently spine wear make sure you will have even spine wear from heel to the tip.
when you get rich even spine wear your edge will be even too.
hope i am clear at this time. gl

Yeppers... you've got a sad little blade there... we need to turn that frown upside down. This is the way that I understand what you need to do:

As sham said, you need to remove metal from the spine everywhere except in the middle of the blade (the area where it has been honed the most). So, you want to protect the middle of the spine by putting tape over that portion of the spine.

This way, only the toe and heel areas will be worn down. After some time, you will reach a point where the spine is worn down enough at the two ends that you'll be able to get a straight edge on your razor.

One thing I'd keep in mind is that if you are adding pressure in the wrong place, you could be stalling out your progress. For example, if you are doing heavy pressure honing circles or something with your finger pushing down hard in the middle of the blade, you would be making this frown problem worse.

INHO, You are going to have to spend some time on a coarse stone evening out the spine wear before your edge comes around.

good luck!

WOW! Thats far from a smile! As Janivar said the blade has a number of issues. LIsten to Sham/Hi_bud_gl and the others, they are giving you good information. If it were me I would throw it away just because of how much blade is gone, it looks as if the shoulder goes all the way to the edge! You can dremel that out, it would be a fun project, but a lot of work for very little.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

WOW! Thats far from a smile! As Janivar said the blade has a number of issues. LIsten to Sham/Hi_bud_gl and the others, they are giving you good information. If it were me I would throw it away just because of how much blade is gone, it looks as if the shoulder goes all the way to the edge! You can dremel that out, it would be a fun project, but a lot of work for very little.

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This is good advice for a person who wants to learn St8 Razor shaving. Buy a good priced used that is shave ready or a newer one that come professionally honed. If you try to shave with a blade like that, you might have a bad experience in shaving that is not hard to do. Put that blade aside for now until you know what a good shave means then you can figure out a challenge like that with no problem from forementioned suggetions or otherwise. I suggest you start out with a 5/8 or 6/8 size blade as they are easier to shave with as far as controling you shaving angle.

Thanks for the help again. Well, I've made some progress--despite slaving away for 3 hours or so. I'm not quite sure how this happened, but there are now little areas here and there which are more worn. So things have become more complex despite my getting rid of the large wear that was in the middle before. Honestly, it would probably be better for my sanity to buy a shave-ready blade, but I'm very stubborn and after using up so much time, I must see it through so long as my sanity holds. I don't know what to do about the shoulder meeting the heel. I've tried to round that off, but the area is too small to do much on the stone. I'd be happy just to get the rest of the blade good to go. On that note, once I manage to even out the blade, is it just normal honing from that point?

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Originally Posted by eagentebuddy

Thanks for the help again. Well, I've made some progress--despite slaving away for 3 hours or so. I'm not quite sure how this happened, but there are now little areas here and there which are more worn. So things have become more complex despite my getting rid of the large wear that was in the middle before. Honestly, it would probably be better for my sanity to buy a shave-ready blade, but I'm very stubborn and after using up so much time, I must see it through so long as my sanity holds. I don't know what to do about the shoulder meeting the heel. I've tried to round that off, but the area is too small to do much on the stone. I'd be happy just to get the rest of the blade good to go. On that note, once I manage to even out the blade, is it just normal honing from that point?

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yes as soon as you even up the spine edge should be even too.then you hone it as normal blade.

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Originally Posted by eagentebuddy

I don't know what to do about the shoulder meeting the heel. I've tried to round that off, but the area is too small to do much on the stone.

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check out this link for some help

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...ing-heels.html

Thanks once again everyone. I'll definitely keep all this in mind for future reference. Unfortunately, I've given up on my current razor. The last straw was when I realized too late that one end of my waterstone was slightly uneven, where the whole time before I thought it was that particular side of my blade. By now, I've shaved off a ridiculous amount of the spine. I'm quite displeased with myself to say the least. Well, I'll certainly be getting a new shave-ready razor this time. Thanks again everyone.

Don't be displeased. It's all experience & that heel stabiliser was going to be the next impasse. If you couldn't reduce it, it would have lifted the heel, putting more pressure at the toe & creating a new geometry issue.
Enjoy the new razor. You will at least have a benchmark now.