Long time reader, First time honer

I just received (from a friend of mine who had ruined the edge with improper honing) an almost brand new straight razor (Dovo, me thinks) and an equally new norton 8k/4k. As I said above my friend had purchased all of this thinking that he wouldn't have any problems. I'm not sure if he honed it out of the box or decided it wasn't sharp enough or what but he ruined the edge on it and now I'm not sure if it could cut butter. He handed it all off to me after giving up because he knew I was interested in getting my own.

I don't want to screw this thing up anymore but I would love to get it into shving condition. Do any of you think that theres anyway that a complete novice could get this thing up and shaving on my own? If so, what would you all recommend I do?

I would think it would be easy, with patience. Others will chime in but heres is what I would do. I'd get a microscope (Radio shack $10) and look to make sure the edge isn't screwed up, that is that it isn't nicked badly. If so, I'd hone until flat. Lap the hone correctly, using wet/dry sand paper. Then simply hone the razor flat with a little pressure and lessen the pressure until it shaves good. Then use less and less pressure until it shaves great. In the event that it is overhoned, just back hone on 8K a little. The process is just playing around using a heal leading stroke in the beginning and working the edge until flat. Read up on honing and play with it. Buy a strop and start stropping. Towards the end keep the strokes the same angle, the same exact length, and the same exact pressure equally on both sides. Use an X pattern at the end. Pretty simple really. If your friend has really screwed it up use the 4K side until its no longer screwed up. Your looking for a nice bevel with which to sharpen on.

Hi, VTyler. You came to the right place. Here's my 2¢:

Microscope is unnecessary, but will probably help you out in the long run. I have been honing blind for 8 months now and it's going ok. I'm sure I've fixed blades in worse shape than what you've got.

Although I didn't lap mine till last week, lapping your hone might be a great idea. I suspect your friend has honed off any 'high points' but he may have created a valley. If the hone (both sides) sticks to a wet pane of glass, it's flat.

Hold the razor up to the light and peer down the edge. If it is flat or slightly rounded you're fine. If it dips in the middle you need to do some circles on the hone until it is. Be careful not to apply lots of pressure while you do this. That'll just make matters worse. Patience and Persistence are great qualities for this task.

When you're ready to start creating the shaving edge, follow the Pyramid in the Permanent Archives of the Help Files and you will create a good bevel. Keep the pressure even right down the blade. Use the Search function 'pyramid' and 'pressure' too. Read as much as you can handle before you get going.

Now if your friend had just come here, done some reading and asked the right questions he'd be getting the best shaves of his life by now.

X

Since your friend gave it to you and your not out of pocket on it I would use it as a practice razor and give it a whirl. Worse comes to worse if your unsuccessful you can still send it out.

As Xman said inspect it, read the resources here and then hone it slowly, continually testing every few strokes, that way if things go south on you you'll catch it before they get out of hand.

Great stuff so far, thanks. I think I'll spend a few days reading the archives and then give it a shot this weekend.

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Originally Posted by VTyler

I don't want to screw this thing up anymore but I would love to get it into shving condition. Do any of you think that theres anyway that a complete novice could get this thing up and shaving on my own? If so, what would you all recommend I do?

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Yes it is possible but my advice to you would be to contact Lynn and have him hone it for you. This will give you a nice sharp razor to start with and it will let you get a feel for what it should feel like. my 2cents.:)

Don't bother Lynn with everything man. Just try it. If you have a good stone it's not that hard.

There's a plethora of information here about honing. Much of it is good advice. Keep the spine on the stone. Stroke heel to toe with a light balanced hand. Stop honing when it's sharp enough to shave. That's about it. Nothing ventured; nothing gained. Then if, after making a determined run at it, you can't get it to shave comfortably, you can always get someone to hone it for you.

I took an hour or so today to work on the razor. I followed the advice I found on this board and I got it shaving my arm hair pretty well, we'll see how it does on my face tomorrow. My one concern ( a bit of an understatement) is that I could not get it to pass a "hanging hair test" How concerned about this should I be?

This could be a concern. It may shave, but it may shave badly. Was the root end of the hair hanginging out? It doesn't usually work the other way.

If you're convinced the razor is flat or 'smiling' and that the bevel is good you might try a conservative pyramid: 1/5, 3/5, 5/5, 3/5, 3/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I recomend you go light on the 4k side and ULTRA light on the 8k especially toward the end. Keep testing the edge with the pad of your thumb very frequently throughout and don't hesitate to take a break and try the Hanging Hair Test in the middle if you ffel like it might be close.

X

Please note that the HHT is also harder to pass if you have thinner hair (at least I've found this to be true since my razors pass the HHT wit one if my girlfriends hairs easily but one of mine only very rarely one the first try.

Well, I went back at it today trying to get a sharper edge and I'm actually pretty impressed/surprised at how much sharper I got it. I did get it to cut the hanging hair this time around. The real test will be tonight when I actually shave with it.

Great to hear. I often find that the first pyramid tells me what I really need to do to get the shaving edge, eg. more 4k less pressure on the 8k ... whatever. Just a reminder to prep your beard and face very well. First straight shaves can be intense on your face. Good luck! :)

X

If you guys are leaving the root of the hair hanging out in order to pass the hanging hair test, you're cheating yourself in the test. A razor doesn't have to be well honed to pass the test that way and a well honed razor will pass the test with the natural tip of the hair hanging. My experience has been that a razor may still shave OK if it won't pass this test, but it won't shave at it's best until it can. A razor can pass the test with the root hanging out and shave very badly, indeed.

I want to add again it is the shave that is the real test!!

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

If you guys are leaving the root of the hair hanging out in order to pass the hanging hair test, you're cheating yourself in the test. A razor doesn't have to be well honed to pass the test that way and a well honed razor will pass the test with the natural tip of the hair hanging. My experience has been that a razor may still shave OK if it won't pass this test, but it won't shave at it's best until it can. A razor can pass the test with the root hanging out and shave very badly, indeed.

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Some of us have hairs which are quite fine and almost never pass the HHT without the root hanging out even after stropping. Also, it's not the FACT that the razor passes the HHT, but HOW it performs the test. If the hair is reluctant to pass, it will be reluctant to give good details.

X

Xman, the problem with the "roots out" hanging hair test is that it defeats the very purpose of the hanging hair test. A hair has scales on it and your razor MUST cleanly grab and cut that hair with the root held firmly by your skin in order to give you a good shave. If the tips were anchored by your skin and the root hangning out of your face, then it would be a different thing, entirely.

When a razor can very, very easily bite into the hair without the aid of scales stopping and forcing it to dig in, it will shave easily and cleanly. We weant a sharp razor to immediately bite the hair WITH the grain of the scale as close to the skin as possible with the least amount of "sliding" and the least resistance as it cuts. I've got some very fine arm hair but a truly sharp razor will still cleanly cut the tips of that hair off without pulling, popping or having to touch the skin.

Here's a closeup of a hair and you can see what I mean by the scales and why we want a blade that will cut and not slide along them. You'll also note that if you pinch a hair between thumb and forefinger of your right hand AND your left hand and pull, the root will stay in your hand and the tip will be very difficult to hang onto because the barbs go the other way.

But...... how sharp a raor really needs to be depends entirely on shaving expectations. I expect a lot out of my razors. If it won't shave closely against the grain on the first pass with minimum face prep, the razor isn't keen enough, in my opinion. To me, a truly great shave leaves the face so smooth that you can't feel any stubble or "grit" no matter which direction you move your fingertips - or a light stroke with a paper towel. But I get a bit obsessive about it, admittedly.

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Papa Bull

That is some photo.. Great for your explaination. But I don't see how cutting across a scale will matter whether you hold from base or tip.:confused:

Rich, the scales grow out - on this image, the root would be at the bottom. If you hold the hair by the tip, the scale grabs the blade immediately and you cut it and it doesn't require a particularly sharp razor to do that. Holding it by the root, the razor will slide across the scales like water runs off a shingled roof if it isn't VERY keen - and that's closer to what the razor will have to do on your face in order to give you a clean, comfortable shave, too. If the blade slides across those protective scales isnstead of immediately biting, then it's not going to give you a very close shave. It will eventually grab with enough pressure, but the hair will then be at a steep angle, which means it will have to cut the hair on an angle - a longer section of cut with a duller razor than one that would cut cleanly as the hair exits the follicle.

Ok that makes sense to me. Good explaination. Thanks

Not to split hairs ( :D LOL, oh gods I slay me :D ) but shaving is a different action than the HHT. Since the skin is indeed holding the root and the blade is lightly pressing the skin during the shave, it's actually a shearing action. The HHT cannot be said to shear since there is little counter force on the hair, just its own resistance based on the physical properties of the individual's hair and the length at which it is held.

X

You're right, Xman. There is little counterforce - or shall we say "stiffness" in a hanging hair. That's the whole point of the test, though. If it will shear the hair easily, without any popping or pulling with extreme ease (easy enough to cut it instead of bending it out of the way), then it will easily shave.

Perhaps we should just agree that a razor that can pass the hanging hair test when the hair is held by the root, as well as the tip, would be noticably sharper than one that can only cut the hair if it's held by the tip. To me, sharper is better, but everyone has to make their own call on what they consider to be a close, comfortable shave.

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Rich, you're welcome.

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

If it will shear the hair easily,

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I mean the HHT isn't technically a shearing action, but you're right.

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

Perhaps we should just agree that a razor that can pass the hanging hair test when the hair is held by the root, as well as the tip, would be noticably sharper than one that can only cut the hair if it's held by the tip.

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Agreed, with the understanding that some guys have very fine hair that hardly if ever passes it root out. Razors that pass tests on finer hair should also shave better.

X