New Dovo 6/8 best quality "PROFESIONALLY SHARPENED"

Okay I have been straight shaving for a week now first shave went all out and did two full passes WTG and ATG and been doing the same everyday. Blade was brand new with professionally honed blade.

I guess one could chaulk it up to experience or lack their of, but it felt as though it was pulling alot almost like a regular disposable that was one shave away from needing to be replaced. I tried without stroping and with stroping not much of a difference. I had ordered a 10,000 naniwa superstone at the same time I purchased the razor incase I messed up the edge on the strope as well as a cotton strope with .5 CRox I figured i could not make it worse and gave it a few laps on the super stone 10,000. It helped, but was not feeling like I thought it should.

Now I had been researching for a while on this to see if I couldn't make the blade shave better, so I went ahead and ordered. The Norton starter set 200/1000 4000/8000.

Taped the spine with one layer of electrical tape ran it on the 1,000 to start from "scratch" this is after I rounded the edges of the stones and flattened them with the norton flattening stone.

I ran it on the 1,000 in the x pattern until it was being "sucked" into the stone and watch the wall of water infront of the blade as I progressed and you could see that the new bevel completely got rid of the old bevel. So after the 1,000 I ran a few laps on the 4,000 then proceeded to follow the pyramid on the 4,000/8,000 as described by Lyn in the WIKI. Then proceeded to run about 12 laps on the 10,000 super stone, and 10 laps on my Crox strope. All of this was done with just the weight of the blade.

I checked the Edge as I progressed with the TPT not so much on the finger nail test as just can't stand the feeling on the finger nail. Well after all the sharpening and attempting the HHt as I progressed. I am not able to pass the HHT to save my life. I just said :shrug: and decided to run it on the leather strope shave. Must say it was better then the original edge it came with that was professionally honed.

So I think it could still be better and I am some what confused on what I am doing wrong. I am having an issue figuring out the earliest that I should be able to pass the HHT. Also the toe end of the blade is rounded and looking at the original grinding/honing the toe was sharpened on the rounded edge some what, and upon searching the wiki do i need to do a "rolling X pattern" modified to lift the heel at the end of the stroke to sharpen the toe up some what as it is in a section that is not laying flat on the stone. :thinking:

Sounds like you well on your way. Good job!
As to the HHT, I'm learning that it takes some time to "calibrate" your hair to your edges. Even then, it's not always a perfectly reliable test. Don't sweat it too much; as long as you are getting comfortable shaves now (already), rest assured that they will only get better!

Cheers!

I only use the HHT after stropping. "How" the blade cuts at that point is a good indicator of what's going on sharpness wise but the shave test is "THE" test. HHT & cutting arm hair above skin level tells you nothing about the comfort of the edge
I sometimes try to slowly cut individual arm or leg hairs toward the end of the honing process at near skin level & try to feel for tugging pre the cut. A properly sharp & smooth razor may well knock the hair over before cutting it but if it then slices thru & the hair just falls over somewhere near the blade I know I'm close to ready.

Also if you're using tape change it often to make sure you are honing the edge & not just the bevel.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

I only use the HHT after stropping. "How" the blade cuts at that point is a good indicator of what's going on sharpness wise but the shave test is "THE" test. HHT & cutting arm hair above skin level tells you nothing about the comfort of the edge
I sometimes try to slowly cut individual arm or leg hairs toward the end of the honing process at near skin level & try to feel for tugging pre the cut. A properly sharp & smooth razor may well knock the hair over before cutting it but if it then slices thru & the hair just falls over somewhere near the blade I know I'm close to ready.

Also if you're using tape change it often to make sure you are honing the edge & not just the bevel.

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Okay I am a bit confused on this if I am correct I use the tape on the spine when setting bevel and during the rest of the sharpening process correct?

It's generally accepted that what you start with is what you finish with.... sorta If you start with tape, you should finish with tape, but keep in mind that the tape wears some, especially on the coarser stones, and should be replaced if it shows signs of wear. Tape can also be used to create secondary or "compound" bevels. OTOH, some guys don't use it at all.

I started out using it, and as I learned not to butcher the razor with the stones, I quit using it. I found it to be a bit of a PITA.

You'll find tons and ton of threads discussing all aspects and philosophies regarding the use of tape, a quick search through the threads will turn up hours worth of reading material.

Have fun,

**edit: short answer: yes**:)

just for the record, what exactly is "professionally honed"?
Did you send it to a honemeister from our community,
or did someone like "dovo" or a "tool shop" do it?

For what you did, I am glad it worked out good for ya.
You are obviously on your way.
I don´t think you are doing much wrong at the moment,
I guess you just need more practice.
What I would do is buy a halfway decent razor from ebay,
or the classifield (maybe you specifically ask for a razor that is in acceptable condition i.e. not warped, for honing practice) and practice on this razor until you get noticably better results and redo your dovo.

Btw. I personaly think you did a great job choosing a finishing stone.
The Naniwa Super 10.000 is very underrated, most germans and I love it for it´s consistant ability to polish and sharpen.
Just a hint of Chromox afterwards and you can achieve shaves as good as it gets.
Don´t invest into further equippment at this time.

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Originally Posted by Lesslemming

just for the record, what exactly is "professionally honed"?
Did you send it to a honemeister from our community,
or did someone like "dovo" or a "tool shop" do it?

For what you did, I am glad it worked out good for ya.
You are obviously on your way.
I don´t think you are doing much wrong at the moment,
I guess you just need more practice.
What I would do is buy a halfway decent razor from ebay,
or the classifield (maybe you specifically ask for a razor that is in acceptable condition i.e. not warped, for honing practice) and practice on this razor until you get noticably better results and redo your dovo.

Btw. I personaly think you did a great job choosing a finishing stone.
The Naniwa Super 10.000 is very underrated, most germans and I love it for it´s consistant ability to polish and sharpen.
Just a hint of Chromox afterwards and you can achieve shaves as good as it gets.
Don´t invest into further equippment at this time.

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The only reason I even mentioned the fact that it was profesionally sharpened was the fact that every body says send it out and see what a good blade should feel like and I wanted to get my own set of stones so I could be some what "self sustaining" with my own sharpening instead of having to send out my razor and wait to get it back.
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I am still looking for advice regarding the heel and toe of the razor as right now i just used a "regular" x patter it seems like i would need to "rock" the blade as i do the x pattern to sharpen the heel and toe as they are rounded.

When I lap my finishing stone and it is flat, I take it to 600 grit wet or dry then some worn down 600 grit to finish the stone up.
That makes it nice and smooth.
After honing my razor I like to let the finishing stone dry, and then make another 7 or 10 passes on it with progressivly lighter pressure.

As far as the hanging hair test. I have 2 cats one has really fine hair the other has courser hair. It is pretty easy to cut the course hair. The fine hair is another story it took a long time to get my honing skills to the point I could cut that hair.

Keep working on being as consistant as you can with each pass on the hone and before you know it your edge will just keep getting better. Just takes time.


Silver2

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Originally Posted by mjohns66

The only reason I even mentioned the fact that it was profesionally sharpened was the fact that every body says send it out and see what a good blade should feel like and I wanted to get my own set of stones so I could be some what "self sustaining" with my own sharpening instead of having to send out my razor and wait to get it back.
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I am still looking for advice regarding the heel and toe of the razor as right now i just used a "regular" x patter it seems like i would need to "rock" the blade as i do the x pattern to sharpen the heel and toe as they are rounded.

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Please don't take any offense, I really mean none by my comments/questions, but something doesn't seem right here to me.

The story as I understand it is that you with virtually no experience with razors or honing, were able to hone a razor (starting back at the bevel setting level) to a better shaving edge than a pro honemeister with thousands of razors worth of troubleshooting, edge evaluation, and finishing. It isn't adding up for me completely.

I can understand wanting to be self sustaining and having a good kit, I am kind of the same way. One thing though is that if you had a honemeister get your razor shave ready, the lack of sharpness you felt was most likely a technique thing. If it were me, I'd contact them and see if they'd take another look at it. Straight off of their bench the razor should be at the peak of sharpness.

A new dovo that has been previously honed by a pro shouldn't require any special strokes other than the x-stroke.. the toe and heel are round, but the shaving edge should be straight. I hope that you aren't trying to get the round point and shoulder/stabilizer area sharp.


I really hope that you continue to have good experiences. Please understand that we all love to help, and I just had some lingering thoughts that I wanted to ask in order to help others and give perspective.

All the best

Dave

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Originally Posted by Del1r1um

Please don't take any offense, I really mean none by my comments/questions, but something doesn't seem right here to me.

The story as I understand it is that you with virtually no experience with razors or honing, were able to hone a razor (starting back at the bevel setting level) to a better shaving edge than a pro honemeister with thousands of razors worth of troubleshooting, edge evaluation, and finishing. It isn't adding up for me completely.

I can understand wanting to be self sustaining and having a good kit, I am kind of the same way. One thing though is that if you had a honemeister get your razor shave ready, the lack of sharpness you felt was most likely a technique thing. If it were me, I'd contact them and see if they'd take another look at it. Straight off of their bench the razor should be at the peak of sharpness.

A new dovo that has been previously honed by a pro shouldn't require any special strokes other than the x-stroke.. the toe and heel are round, but the shaving edge should be straight. I hope that you aren't trying to get the round point and shoulder/stabilizer area sharp.


I really hope that you continue to have good experiences. Please understand that we all love to help, and I just had some lingering thoughts that I wanted to ask in order to help others and give perspective.

All the best

Dave

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Let me say first off that I am not trying to bash any honemeister as I have not been around long, but long enough that i realize that it takes a long time to perfect the honing skill. I am not saying that I have perfected my honing skills or shaving skills overnight. I know that I am just starting out an know I would say next to nothing.

I am thinking what may have happened is that the blade may have not been honed except the factory hone as it was shipped out fairly quickly and one would think that it would take a minute to get it honed as their are not alot of them around and I am sure that my blade was not the only one that was purchased that day.


So putting the honing aside if it was done by a pro or not, I am seeking advice on trying to perfect my blade and my skills with the tools I have at my disposal.

As far as looking at the toe of the blade it had grinding marks on the toe of it from when i received it. Now performing the normal x patter does not sharpen it at this specific area.

If you havent done so already take a look at the SRP Wiki honing tutorials. Particularly the rolling x. This PDF of a 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing and stropping here is also instructive on how to approach a blade such as you describe.

My approach to learning to hone was to buy a lot of vintage razors. I bought full bladed razors with undamaged blades and scales once I knew enough to avoid razors with issues.

IMO having one or two and getting them to shave ready will not be enough practice to really learn to hone. Having one or two pro honed razors to compare your own efforts to is ideal. I did that and left them alone and focused on practice razors. Just my approach, not necessarily the best one and certainly not the only way to do it.

Mjohns..
I absolutely do not think you were trying to bash anyone, or you'd have probably dropped hints or named names. I also know that you were not saying that you were the greatest honer or anything.... I was just putting together some thoughts that didn't sit right in my head.

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Originally Posted by mjohns66

I am thinking what may have happened is that the blade may have not been honed except the factory hone as it was shipped out fairly quickly and one would think that it would take a minute to get it honed as their are not alot of them around and I am sure that my blade was not the only one that was purchased that day.

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I would bet that either this is the case, or it was a technique issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjohns66

As far as looking at the toe of the blade it had grinding marks on the toe of it from when i received it. Now performing the normal x patter does not sharpen it at this specific area.

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Could you get a decent up-close picture of the area? It may help answer your questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjohns66

Okay I am a bit confused on this if I am correct I use the tape on the spine when setting bevel and during the rest of the sharpening process correct?

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At this stage it is good idea to do just that. Leave "bareback " honing for a later point in your learning curve,.

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Originally Posted by Del1r1um

Mjohns..
I absolutely do not think you were trying to bash anyone, or you'd have probably dropped hints or named names. I also know that you were not saying that you were the greatest honer or anything.... I was just putting together some thoughts that didn't sit right in my head.




I would bet that either this is the case, or it was a technique issue.




Could you get a decent up-close picture of the area? It may help answer your questions.

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Technique issue is possible as I have said before, I decided to give it ago again tonight and re-watched the honing videos in the wiki (I had watched these videos a couple weeks ago) so after a refresher and following step by step of the videos by David Polan I could pass the HHT at the 4,000 grit stone.

Now he used different stones then I did from there on in, but I just decided to experiment with it as I can't make it anyworse. I also did a bit of a "rocking" technique during the x storke like you would on a "smiling" face blade where you lift the toe and then the heel as you go along. I just "modified" it a bit so i would just lift the heel to sharpen the toe a bit on the first 1/8 of the curve as this to me from my limited experience would help me get the areas right under my nostrils.

Well after going for it and following Mr. Polan's videos in the WIKI must say it was even better then before, so sounds like I will just keep it as is and just try to refine my technique as time goes on and as I collect more razors.

I appreciate people giving up their time and for creating this forum with a wealth of information to help people like me who trying to begin with this wonderful new "world".

you need to lap the 4k untill the grainy feel goes . if its a dovo i don't think you will need a roll may be just raize a fraction towards the end of stroke to get the the very tip of toe. i would just repeat smaller pyramids on 4k 8k untill you can shave of 8k nicley . don't move on untill then , you will pass hht after stropping with linen/leather much easier . so master the 4k/8k when your happy at that level do another 5 on 8k test razor again. then do 10 laps on 12k and test again . if its not smooth enough do another 5 test and another 5 if needed 20 to 25 is all you should need and your razor needs to be shave ready at 8k level or other wise your wasting your time hitting the 12k and crox. when your absalutley happy at 12k just add 10 laps crox. use black marker see where your edge is making contact if your unsure .

i have dovo best quality and to say they are the cheaper razor all i can say is they shave as good as any razor and very smooth.