edge

At the moment I`m using three hones to get an edge ,the first is a cushion strop hone about 4000. I use it till I get a very agressive but smooth bite using the wet thumb nail test. next I use the finer edge maker and after a few strokes with that the edge seems to go blunt ,no bite if any at all.Finaly I have a very fine lithide ,about 8000+ ,that seems to bring it back up some, but no where near the first 4000 grit hone
WHAT AM I DOING WRONG
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Kind regards Peter :cry:

You might be overhoning on the cushion strop. Have you flattened the stones? And are you using any lather?

Honing can be a little more challenging sometimes than it looks. I don't know what your doing wrong, but I'll toss out some ideas. If a stone isn't performing I can recommend removing it from your progression. The cushion and Lithide are doing well it seems so go ahead and focus on those. You'll need practice so don't expect instant results. I use a thumbnail test simply to ensure the edge is consistent, not to determine its sharpness. I suggest moving to the hanging hair test or shaving arm hair at a distance (bout an inch) away from your arm. How is it doing at shaving arm hair?

How do you know the grits of these stones? Some of your numbers seem . . . suprising to me. Do the stones feel smoother as you move up in your assumptive grit? Smoother to your finger? It seems to me you might be using 3 barber hones.

I know the grit of the cushon hone and the lithide because I purchased them from Tilly, the edge maker was advertised from medim to fine,I purchased from tilly as well but I bought that first without any advice ,I have also obtained a 1903 mint swaty which I havent used yet
At the moment I`m just using water on the hones
PS .Using the thumb nail test ,when is the edge ready ,when it just starts to bite or when it realy Bites with a capital B
So I gues my question is at what point do you stop honing and move to the strop ,because if I can achieve an agressive but smooth edge with the 4000 grit hone, wouldn`t that make all the others redundant
sorry I guess there are another dozen questiond in there but this honing business is more complicated than I thought
Being a knife maker I thought I wouldn`t have much trouble with this aspect of the game
but it just shows what trouble you can get in when you combine ignorance with confidence
Kind regards Peter

Yea, it can be a little challenging. Keep in mind your learning a craft not just shaving. To try and answer a few of your questions with my opinions. You move to the strop after it passes a hanging hair test. I do not do a thumb test but you probably won't get much feedback from a thumbnail test, you would move to a thumb "skin" test, wetted for atleast 20 seconds to judge the sharpness of the blade. Again, I don't do these tests. I use an arm hair test or a hanging hair test. But a soaked thumb can, with practice, judge the quality of the edge. You move the edge in a non slicing direction across your thumb print grooves. The edge, I think, should catch and move the blade in the direction you flick the thumb and you should be able to ultimately tell if the blade is sharp by "feel". This takes lots of practice though. I believe your doing some finite damage to the edge by running it over your thumbnail continuously. I would stop doing that. Again, you only run the blade over your nail to ensure that it is continuous, no bevel nicks. It has nothing to do with sharpness. Well very little of import, anyway.

I move to the strop all the time and then test shave. Since you don't know what a sharp razor really feels like I don't think my describing it would help much. I will say that my razors shave the lightest, softest hair I can find with ease (I'm referring to running the razor over my arm hair about an inch away). As I move the razor parallel to my arm it "catches" and shaves every single hair from even an inch away and even the very tips of the hairs. And I don't consider my razors really all that sharp (and I'm a hack at honing).

A 4000 grit hone achieving a good bite does not make the other hones redundant. It sets the bevel up to accept the higher grits which will create a smoother shave on your face. Ultimately your not trying to dig creases in your thumb, your trying to shave your face.

BTW, I'm still suspicious of the grits on your hones.

So assuming your 4k grit is achieving what you want it to, go ahead and test it on a hanging hair and go ahead and strop it. Do you feel any draw on the strop? Shave your cheek alittle, does it shave? Does it feel ok? Chances are it won't pass a hanging hair test, but this is the direction your headed in.

Can I assume your using an X pattern on these hones, as I recall they are all pretty small. ?????

Make sure if your getting close that each stroke is with the same light pressure on each side, is at the same angle, and is the same distance down the hone. Technically, your your getting close to a shaving edge but aren't there yet the razor will develop a sucking feeling on the hone during the passes.

One important step is understanding pressure requirements. In order to fully understand your current requirement you've got to learn to assess the edge. And maybe more important be able to tell us where the edge is at. But given your current situation I would add a touch of pressure on each hone and do some passes, then use a lighter and lighter touch working up and down on the two hones that seem effective to you, ending on whichever hone is the smoothest.

Now, this hone your describing as a 4k. If you run your finger over it with say a few pounds of pressure applied back and forth on the skin of your index finger, it hurts right? Its not anything you'd describe as smooth? Someone soon will have some experience with that exact hone and we'll be good to go. The hone that I'm familiar with as you describe is higher than 4K, but perhaps with your experience you've seen a 4K before?

Thanks ever so much ,will be back in a few days ,in the meantime I will take on board your sugestions, and hopefully start to nut this out
Kind regards Peter

It sounds like your razor is overhoned. That means that the edge has become to thin. If it is then when you perform the thumbnail test it will not feel even and/or will not bite into the nail very well. To get rid of the wire edge perform 5 backhoning strokes followed by 5 normal honing strokes. Then try the thumbnail test again. Repeat this until it passes the thumbnail test. When it does then you are almost done. Do very little more honing and DO NOT! use the thumbnail test anymore. Use either the thumb test or the Hanging hair test.
If you have questions on how to perform those then just post a message here.

Hope this helps,