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...if my hone is wide enough for the whole blade to make contact? I'm having some good results from my honing efforts and am wondering now exactly the distinct benefit of the various strokes. An X stroke seems to me not much different in effect than a stroke straight down the hone with the blade angled heel-first. On a 3 inch hone, an X stroke seems to short-change the heel end of the blade.
Just wondering...
Lawson I'm new to this as well and have thought the same as you. The only thing that kind of makes sense to me is that if your stone is not perfectly even moving the blade across the stone might help ensure that you are making contact across the whole edge of the blade.
I'm interested in seeing what the experts have to say.
Ed
I would not use the X stroke on a wider stone, for the reasons you mentioned, it is not necessary and it will short change the heel.
I'm no pro, but from what I understand, the x-stroke's purpose is more than dealing with an issue of stone width. As mentioned above, it helps ensure that the whole edge of the razor is contacting the stone throughout the stroke by continuously changing the contact point of stone and steel as you move the razor across the hone. (Big Guys chime in if I am totally wrong on this).
Also, in general, the heel tends to get a little more pressure on the hone just by way of physics, and the x-stroke helps deal with this by getting the heel off of the hone sooner rather than later. The x-stroke also helps you avoid the dreaded frown and uneven hone wear.
Long story short, I use the x-stroke and it's variants because it just plain out works for me.
Best,
Mark
I find that of the razors I hone, very few have perfectly flat edges, so most need some degree of a roll in the stroke. But even for the few that are perfectly flat, I still use an X stroke - maybe just out of habit. It works, and I don't feel like experimenting with it, so I'm not going to change it without reason.
Ditto. I do seem to lead a lil' bit with the heal though, but that may just be the way I do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
Hey thanks--I see the point on blades or hones not being perfectly flat, that helps a lot to see the function on the X-stroke. The problem with my wide hones is that I can't really start with the blade toe off the stone since it seems like the shank often changes the angle that the blade lays on the stone.
I wasn't questioning the practice so much as asking a question about the practice!
I use a full X for sharpening and a tiny, tiny one for polishing.
I always use circles and Xs, as recommended by Lynn, for setting bevels, and X strokes for the rest of it no matter what the width of the hone is. I more or less follow the 1961 barber manual tutorial that I frequently post the link to here.
Running the blade straight across a wider hone is fine as long as the hone and the blade are perfect and making good contact throughout the stroke. I can't see it but I suspect that there will be anomalies between the two. If not at the beginning of the honing as the stone and razor begin to wear. The X stroke seems to be effective in keeping the hone/blade contact more uniform than it might be otherwise. Just IMHO.
I actually feel that the angular striations put into the edge by utilizing the X stroke on all my stones helps the razor cut better for me. Pressure is the evil that hurts the heal of the razor. With a nice even stroke, you rarely have a problem anywhere along the edge. Even when doing circles on a 3 inch stone, I concentrate on the center of the razor which helps to keep it flat and not create extra pressure at the heel or toe.
If I am worried about blade contact, then I'll normally switch to a 45 degree angle X stroke which works well for me in making contact with the entire edge against the stone.
Have fun,
Lynn
Thanks all! This is extremely informative. I had been doing the X strokes, but had the erroneous idea that they served mainly to allow one to hone the razor on a narrow stone. I can see now that it has several different effects at once.
Any tips on how to insure that as I pull the razor in the X stroke, I don't end up chafing the blade on the edge of the stone? I can see the x stroke really demands even contact between the razor and the stone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Geez you guys got all technical and stuff :D
I was just going to write the X strokes are only necessary if you want a nice even sharp edge that shaves easily :roflmao:
When you lap you chamfer the edges of the stone. This insures that no divots or irregularities will ding the edge. The smooth stroke and light and even pressure Lynn refers to will take care of the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by LawsonStone
Also, remember that you don't have to do an X stroke that uses all the stone on a 3 incher. Smaller X strokes or those only using half the stone are fine. You'll get better at it, the more you practice. You just don't want to be too tentative or too firm. Just develop a nice even stroke and let the stone do it's work for you.
Have fun,
Lynn
So Lawson,
There you go, the Y's of the X ztroke. :fim:
:beer2:
What I have found is that a vast majority of blades have a "smile" shape to them. Very, very few are perfectly straight. Thus the need to watch the water flow in front of the edge to adjust the point of contact while honing.
When I check the shape of a blade I take a barber hone, or similar flat surface, and " stand up" the razor on the hone and have a light behind it.
The light comes thru where the edge does not touch the hone.
If I knew graphics programs I would diagram this but........ ( anyone?)
This was great. I feel like I owe you guys tuition for group instruction at SRPU, Straight Razor Place University!
I know the X stroke makes for a sharp razor, I'm just one of those guys who needs to know why it does, and how it works!
I think the X-stroke helps even out honing pressure, too. It is very hard to hold two planes perfectly parallel. On some level, your whole edge probably isn't making even contact. For the time I was using straight strokes on my strop I noticed over time that although functional the toe of my razor was not as sharp, and correspondingly only the right side of my linen was getting darker. Although the heel was not getting too much pressure the toe was not getting enough.
All that to say, the X on a hone or strop, IMO, helps to put the whole edge through whatever your "sweet spot" (I guess it would be the fulcrum, contact point) on the hone is.
I use an x pattern, particularly at the end of the honing process.
1) Easier to use light pressure with a pulling stroke
2) Less lapping required
3) May be balancing out the extra pressure I apply at the heel by holding the blade by the shank
What I don't get is why we don't have more people asking:
"How do you guys apply no pressure when honing if I am always holding the shank of the blade against the hone . . . doesn't that apply more pressure at the heel?" followed by "Is that the reason you'all use an x-pattern . . . in order to even out the extra motion created at the tip of the blade while using an x-pattern?"
I don't know, but I've always been of the opinion that the unasked questions are some of the most telling.
HERE is an old thread that discussed the X-stroke. If you search other posts by the OP you will find what happens when being right is more important than figuring out how to hone.