Watching the water bead

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08-30-2010, 08:10 PM
JetHed

Watching the water bead

Hi,

I've been honing for about 2 years now and I think I'm finally reaching minimum competency.

This past weekend I was honing 6 razors on a Norton 4K/8K (using Lynn's pyramid) and finishing on a Chinese 12K. I was paying particular attention to how the water on the stone "rode" the blade edge as I did X strokes. My theory was that If I could keep the size and flow of the water bead constant throughout the stroke that would mean that the pressure and contact with the stone was constant too. When I got done to my surprise all 6 were popping hanging hairs nicely without stropping. I've only shaved with one and it was great. I expect the others will be good too.

I'm thrilled to say that this was by far my best honing session to date!!!!

Do any of you more experienced guys watch the water bead? Am I right in thinking that if the bead is constant the pressure is too?

Doug
08-30-2010, 08:16 PM
ben.mid

I look at the wave ahead of the blade, which I guess is the same. I've not made the connection between it's consistency & pressure. I just aim to push all the water ahead of it, like a squeegee.
I think a lot of the guys use the water as an indicator.
Glad it's helped you improve. These moments make the frustrations worthwhile!
08-30-2010, 08:18 PM
JimmyHAD

I watch the water ahead and the way it eventually runs up the belly of the blade. If it ain't running up onto the blade I keep on until it is.
08-30-2010, 08:19 PM
holli4pirating

I use the water differently at different stages. When the water runs up onto the razor, I know the bevel is set (though if there is already water on the razor, that breaks the surface tension and that can cause a false positive), and after that I just look for even-ness.

I prefer not to put soap in my water, because a higher surface tension requires a better edge to get water onto the blade, so for me, it seems to be a better test.

Also, congrats on your success!
08-30-2010, 08:53 PM
Slartibartfast

Will tape affect the wave of water? Sticky minds want to know.
08-30-2010, 08:56 PM
holli4pirating

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Will tape affect the wave of water? Sticky minds want to know.

I've never noticed a difference. I think the water is affected by the edge, not the spire.
08-30-2010, 08:57 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Will tape affect the wave of water? Sticky minds want to know.

Not IME. The edge is what matters relative to the wave. A correct honing stroke with or without tape being a given.
08-30-2010, 09:00 PM
hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Will tape affect the wave of water? Sticky minds want to know.

it depends whether you're taping the spine or taping the edge

...or both
08-31-2010, 11:07 PM
thebigspendur

Also water coming out behind the razor is an indicator something is either amiss with the blade or your technique.
09-01-2010, 11:19 AM
MarkinLondon

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I watch the water ahead and the way it eventually runs up the belly of the blade. If it ain't running up onto the blade I keep on until it is.

That's interesting.... I'm learning to use my Charnley, and find that with my Coti, the water slides up and onto my blade, but when I move to the Charnley, the water is simply pushed down the hone. I don't use tape at all.

What gives?
09-01-2010, 01:29 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

That's interesting.... I'm learning to use my Charnley, and find that with my Coti, the water slides up and onto my blade, but when I move to the Charnley, the water is simply pushed down the hone. I don't use tape at all.

What gives?

I notice when going from one stone, where the water is moving up the blade, to another stone, I sometimes have to stay on the new stone for a time before the water starts to run up the blade. I assume it has something to do with the relationship between the edge and the surface of the stone, 'mating' as it were, but I am not sure.
09-01-2010, 01:46 PM
nun2sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

That's interesting.... I'm learning to use my Charnley, and find that with my Coti, the water slides up and onto my blade, but when I move to the Charnley, the water is simply pushed down the hone. I don't use tape at all.

What gives?

Same thing happens to me when I move up the grits. Once the bevel is set, its just a matter of polishing, when the blade is as polished as it can get on any particular stone the water runs up the edge and onto the blade. Then you move up a notch/grit and repeat the process. When you move up a grit you start to polish the edge even finer, so it will push the water
until the edge is polished sufficiently to allow the water to run up the blade.
09-01-2010, 02:47 PM
MarkinLondon

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Same thing happens to me when I move up the grits. Once the bevel is set, its just a matter of polishing, when the blade is as polished as it can get on any particular stone the water runs up the edge and onto the blade. Then you move up a notch/grit and repeat the process. When you move up a grit you start to polish the edge even finer, so it will push the water
until the edge is polished sufficiently to allow the water to run up the blade.

WOW! That explains a lot! This should be stuck. It's a great guideline to use when determining when to move to the next stone.
09-06-2010, 04:28 AM
schatz

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

WOW! That explains a lot! This should be stuck. It's a great guideline to use when determining when to move to the next stone.

I look forward to trying this tip in the future as a variation on the more traditional pyramid. Placing the technique somewhere within the Wiki might help a lot of us.
02-04-2011, 04:15 PM
JetHed

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Same thing happens to me when I move up the grits. Once the bevel is set, its just a matter of polishing, when the blade is as polished as it can get on any particular stone the water runs up the edge and onto the blade. Then you move up a notch/grit and repeat the process. When you move up a grit you start to polish the edge even finer, so it will push the water
until the edge is polished sufficiently to allow the water to run up the blade.

I've always used Pyramids. (Lynn's mostly) I'm going to do some honing this weekend. I'm going to try this technique. I'll let you know how it turns out.
02-04-2011, 04:38 PM
nun2sharp

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetHed

I've always used Pyramids. (Lynn's mostly) I'm going to do some honing this weekend. I'm going to try this technique. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Have fun! I hope you learn something new, its just one method and if it works for you so much the better. kelly
02-04-2011, 04:42 PM
JimmyHAD

Try the circles that Lynn and Glen have been using too. Works a treat IME.
02-04-2011, 10:49 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Try the circles that Lynn and Glen have been using too. Works a treat IME.

Agreed, my bevels have greatly improved since using the circle to sharp method.
02-04-2011, 11:47 PM
sgthuskey

I have always watched the wave when sharpening knives and as I have started with razors, but I have never heard of watching for the water to break over the blade. Thanks for the info. I look forward to putting it into practice.:bow
02-09-2011, 04:01 AM
pcb01

In general, I find that those parts of the bevel that "push" water will be less sharp than those where the water flows onto the blade. This correlates well with TPT, arm hair lopping, and HHT. If I get seduced into believing the "pushing" areas will come around on higher grits, I find they usually do not, and I have to drop down and correct the problem. Wishful thinking never honed a blade.