Thread: Finishing with slurry on Japanese naturals

Originally Posted by JimR

Ehsan-I hear your frustration. I felt something very similar when I first started this path. So here's the not-necessarily-honing-specific advice my barber gave me, which helped me out immensely.

1. Just do one thing. Choose one hone, one slurry stone, one razor, and work on that. If you're jumping form hone to hone, razor to razor, your variable just get way too jumbled and it's hard to control your results.

2. Relax. When you start to get frustrated with your honing, it comes out in your body. Your razor control can get bad, your strokes can become uneven and the results just aren't there.

3. Hone happy. If you're not happy, you're probably thinking about something else and not paying attention to what you're doing.

Finally, specific hone advice. When raising your slurry, time>pressure. It can take a while to raise a good slurry with your tomonagura. Don't use pressure to speed it up, just use the time. Pressure can cause not only clumpy, bad slurry but can muck up the surface of your hone.

And finally, the kiita I sent you is well suited to slurry honing, just make sure you don't use much pressure in honing, because it has a tendency to release fresh particles and that can dampen your final polish.

Thanks for the tips, Jim. I think for now I'll stick to the Kiita you sent me and use a piece of it to raise slurry, since you've tested it with slurry and know that it gives a good edge.

I was definitely using a fair bit of pressure to raise my slurry, so I'll try going about it more slowly from now on. I'll keep posting in this thread as I keep trying.

Originally Posted by JimR

...Finally, specific hone advice. When raising your slurry, time>pressure. It can take a while to raise a good slurry with your tomonagura. Don't use pressure to speed it up, just use the time. Pressure can cause not only clumpy, bad slurry but can muck up the surface of your hone...

This is a small but interesting point that is not mentioned enough. On my current setup it takes almost 5 minutes to make a good slurry without a diamond plate.

I can tell the difference in the feel and finish of the edge when using a diamond plate vs. tomonagura. Since the slurry does the work, it's definitely worth the time to whip up the optimal finishing slurry.

Originally Posted by joke1176

This is a small but interesting point that is not mentioned enough. On my current setup it takes almost 5 minutes to make a good slurry without a diamond plate.

I can tell the difference in the feel and finish of the edge when using a diamond plate vs. tomonagura. Since the slurry does the work, it's definitely worth the time to whip up the optimal finishing slurry.

I'd like to hear more about this. I've never used a diamond plate to raise slurry, but this isn't the first time I've seen remarks like yours. Lots of people say that diamond plate slurry is not the same as the tomonagura. Anyone want to speculate why?

Originally Posted by JimR

I'd like to hear more about this. I've never used a diamond plate to raise slurry, but this isn't the first time I've seen remarks like yours. Lots of people say that diamond plate slurry is not the same as the tomonagura. Anyone want to speculate why?

I got it from a very reliable source that a diamond plate should be used and the results would be the best possible from most stones. He insists that it is possible to sharpen a plane well enough that one could read through the curl that is produced using the above procedure.

Later,
Richard

Originally Posted by JimR

I'd like to hear more about this. I've never used a diamond plate to raise slurry, but this isn't the first time I've seen remarks like yours. Lots of people say that diamond plate slurry is not the same as the tomonagura. Anyone want to speculate why?

Jim I am not sure what the difference is, and if there is one. So says that diamond plate is the best for slurry. Could be purely the fact that it is much faster in slurry making?

I'm curious, Does anyone use their J-nats with just water, without a slurry stone?
I get great results off my Nakayama Asagi with just water. ( I do have matching slurries, or Tomonagura) As previously mentioned, The razor is shave ready. The J nat just takes it to another level. I also agree that you should stick with one stone for a while and get to know it...The kiita is a good choice..or the Maruka....I'd get your razor shave ready, then try the Kiita again, Try it without a slurry, see how it does....

Originally Posted by JimR

I'd like to hear more about this. I've never used a diamond plate to raise slurry, but this isn't the first time I've seen remarks like yours. Lots of people say that diamond plate slurry is not the same as the tomonagura. Anyone want to speculate why?

I assumed it was due to the hone media getting crushed and ground finer as you are whipping up slurry with the stone-on-stone surfaces.

With the diamond plates, since it creates slurry so much faster, there was less crushing/grinding and more cutting the stones surface to release slurry.

I can take different tomonagura stones and make slurries of varying grit/effectiveness as a finisher. Gouging chunks of the base-stone off to make a slurry via diamond plate (even a very fine diamond plate) seems coarser to me.

Plus which, it just seems wrong to 'cheat' with a diamond plate when you are going for a pure Japanese stone finish.

Originally Posted by zib

I'm curious, Does anyone use their J-nats with just water, without a slurry stone?
I get great results off my Nakayama Asagi with just water. ( I do have matching slurries, or Tomonagura) As previously mentioned, The razor is shave ready. The J nat just takes it to another level. I also agree that you should stick with one stone for a while and get to know it...The kiita is a good choice..or the Maruka....I'd get your razor shave ready, then try the Kiita again, Try it without a slurry, see how it does....

The Japanese Naturals that I use are Asagi, Kiita and Ohzuku and as stated previously, I am only using water at this point. Sorry about this and for using such a limited amount of strokes.......

Have fun,

Lynn

I have used just water on an Asagi and have found that the razor is very keen. For me, just water polishes the edge and the bevel at the same time. I think of the slurry as a polisher of the bevel but ever so slightly rounds the keenness off, which I like. I am convinced that I am able to adjust the two different parts of a razor's edge, the bevel and the cutting edge, to my liking.

Later,
Richard

Originally Posted by riooso

I got it from a very reliable source that a diamond plate should be used and the results would be the best possible from most stones. He insists that it is possible to sharpen a plane well enough that one could read through the curl that is produced using the above procedure.

Later,
Richard

why a diamond plate vs a piece of J-nat stone as a slurry stone?