Levels of Honing Proficiency

This is just foolin' about, having some fun.

I've been pondering what to call folks at various levels of honing proficiency. We all know honemeister, a master of honing, someone who can take almost any edge and make it shave-ready, whose work is a standard by which to judge other razors and honings, someone who rightly gets paid for their work, isn't flustered or thrown off his game by some oddity of the blade's shape or consistency.

What to call the newbie? What to call someone who has learned pretty well how to hone, but who wouldn't risk doing it with other people's razors for money? Who still isn't sure of himself on lots of points.

I thought of these two terms:

The newbie working seriously at learning the task of honing, but still not there yet, I will call the honester. Just a hint of the idea of an imposter, or someone sincerely acting out a role, but not there yet. The honester is the apprentice, the person who has the hones, hangs out with honemeisters, can talk a good talk about honing, but actually still isn't shaving daily and happily with razors he has honed himself. Memorizing the wiki, he's done...actually putting shaving edges on razors...that's coming.

Once someone has got the basics down and actually has a handful of razors he has honed himself, who generally knows how to solve the main problems honing presents, who can buy a generally sound eBay razor, clean it up, hone it, and add it to his rotation, and maybe even hone a razor for free for a friend...this person I christen the honist. A honist has the skills, but maybe not the consistency nor the versatility of the honemeister. Rounding off a spike point for someone and restoring the edge would be something they could try and succeed at. Honists often will be carrying on exchanges via PMs with honemeisters, and will know enough to know how to use the advice they are being given. They'll be worrying about things like "what's the best situation for taping a spine?" "How do I use a slurry well?" "What do I do when a bevel just won't get right?" "Should I just hone a couple 32nds off this edge to get a clean surface and try again?"

So...the honester, the honist, and the honemeister. There you have a comprehensible set of degrees of compentency in this delightful craft.

And...clearly...I have way too much free time on my hands!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LawsonStone

The newbie working seriously at learning the task of honing, but still not there yet, I will call the honester. Just a hint of the idea of an imposter, or someone sincerely acting out a role, but not there yet.

---

That makes the truly newbie sound kind of devious. Should there be a seperate term for someone who realizes they are newbie, but doesn't pretend they are better than they are?

Other than that, I love the new phrases!

Maybe some distinction....but a lot of time the "posing" of the beginner is sincere enough. We learn to talk the talk because we want to get into the serious conversations where we know good learning will happen. Also, eager to learn, it's easier to learn to talk about honing that to learn actually to hone! So talk runs ahead of proficiency, which is innocent enough though you experienced guys can pretty much see right through that. There is also a kind of temperament that wants to master the concepts pretty fully before giving the real deal a try. So newbies, beginners, wanna-bes, some sincerely learning, some just talking, all of us "all hat and no cattle" for whatever reason...honesters!

I'm just having some fun on a rainy Saturday...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goaT

That makes the truly newbie sound kind of devious. Should there be a seperate term for someone who realizes they are newbie, but doesn't pretend they are better than they are?

Other than that, I love the new phrases!

---

I'd like to see the term "honer-ette" worked in there somewhere! :D

James.

It's now official: I'm a honist.

Excellent. I really enjoyed that post Lawson. The names are great.

I think we need honing classes. Maybe Skype or something. I'd be into those. Then we could be taught by someone as you said, who is upholding a standard or setting that benchmark.

FYI - I just shaved with a W&B that I cleaned up from ebay and honed. Put it into my rotation, with others that I have done the same with. Sharp....very comfortable and sharp. I would like to nominate myself for the position of Honist. Is there someone that will second that nomination? (trying to pay attention to Robert's rules here....)

Thanks for the cool post.

Maxi

I'm not Sham or Jimmy, but believe myself to be far more advanced from what you term an intermediate 'honist.'

This is not an exact science and while I acknowledge and respect your recent analogies, I believe there are far more steps to the ladder than yet meets your eye.

I say 'yet' meets your eye, as my belief is that the further you venture into these woods you will come to realize this yourself.

I guess I'm a honester...still learning & trying to get better.

Call me what you want ot but just don't call me late for dinner. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scipio

I'm not Sham or Jimmy, but believe myself to be far more advanced from what you term an intermediate 'honist.'

This is not an exact science and while I acknowledge and respect your recent analogies, I believe there are far more steps to the ladder than yet meets your eye.

I say 'yet' meets your eye, as my belief is that the further you venture into these woods you will come to realize this yourself.

---

We could add levels to each of those categories...say capping at 5?

So if you're a lot higher than a Honist....maybe a Honist 4 or Honist 5, but just under being a honemeister.

Kind of like getting those little black stripes on your karate colored belts I always see kids get. Just cuz you're a red belt with 4 black stripes doesn't mean you're the next belt up. But well on your way. :)

Some things are better left undefined. As I said, this is not an exact science and certainly something as detailed as honing can not be definitively labelled or categorized - very much in the same way that a 'grit' can not be definitively applied to a natural hone.

These sorts of things can only ever be based on comparables and even then it is personal.

As a broad answer, I am between a honist and a honemeister; however I would certainly not call myself either and I am by no means a mesiter of the art.

I seldom hone wedges and avoid badly damaged razors through preference, so my skills are never pushed to their limits. I am certain if they were I'd advance further....

The best title for me is genuine Rock Hound

Guys
I'm just having fun. I was also trying to think of what level of proficiency I had reached.

I was just foolin' about, so do what you wish with it.

Make sure you have fresh batteries installed in your Acme® Irony Detector

I have always considered a "honester" someone that thinks they are a "honemeister" and has no trouble taking your money and destroying your razor while learning.

Honing is taken very seriously by people. I am not sure why. Perhaps it is a man-thing...who knows?

If you can put an edge on your razor that shaves you comfortably, you have achieved your goal and should be happy with your effort.

It's when you want to start honing for others that the problems arise, because people are giving you money and expecting a service for that money. Not to mention they are trusting their face to your honing prowess.

As a rule of thumb, time is the big indicator of experience with honers. As far as I am concerned, a good honer has lots of experience with many and varied straights in many and varied conditions. And you just cannot get that kind of experience unless you've been at it for years, even if you are honing 10 razors a day.

That's not to say there are not variations from the rule - some people are, I am sure, naturals at honing. And some people may have been at it for 20 years and still cannot manage to lap their way out of a paper bag.

So I say the whole name thing is fun, but nobody should take self-proclaimed titles at face value, or even a little bit seriously. Like everything else in life, do the research. It is not hard to find out if someone is an experienced honer or otherwise by searching the forums or asking around.

James.

And in the not so serious light that Lawsonstone has meant for this thread, I propose a seven year apprenticeship from Honester/Honestrette, Rockhound/Rockbitch, Honist/ette, Honestrier/ette (Notice it takes the word 'Honest' to spell that one.), RockGuru, Stonecollecter and Journeyman Honemeister. Then when they reach their Twentieth year from Honester they can then consider themselves a full Druid Honemeister of the first degree. I reckon by then they might nearly know everything about honing, stones, steels, chemical analysis of stones and steel, circle dancing and human sacrifice...

Just my contribution.


Mick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickR

I reckon by then they might nearly know everything about honing, stones, steels, chemical analysis of stones and steel, circle dancing and human sacrifice...
Mick

---

Is circle dancing the opposite of line dancing ??? :D

LawsonStone may be joking, but...IMHO...the Aussies
(MickR, onimaru55)...really "get it."

There are no "titles"...at least none that have any real
practical significance.

The people that do the best job of work...in any
endeavor...will be appropriately recognized by
their peers. That's what matters. The rest is
"superfluous flummery."

To quote a line from a movie script....

"Badges, senor? We don't got to show you no stinking
badges!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Is circle dancing the opposite of line dancing ??? :D

---

Line dancing should only be attempted sober, and is a more advanced form of dancing than circle dancing (which is allowed to be done while drunk). Square dancing is more advanced again and while this can be attempted drunk, usually ends with the apprentice smacking into a wall at some point...
I hope you are getting up to a respectable standard Oz, You won't make Druid Honemeister of the first degree if you can't get these basics down... :D


Mick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulKidd

LawsonStone may be joking, but...IMHO...the Aussies
(MickR, onimaru55)...really "get it."

There are no "titles"...at least none that have any real
practical significance.

The people that do the best job of work...in any
endeavor...will be appropriately recognized by
their peers. That's what matters. The rest is
"superfluous flummery."

To quote a line from a movie script....

"Badges, senor? We don't got to show you no stinking
badges!"

---

Well said mate! As for Aussies 'getting it', it's more a national sport to 'take the p!ss', out of everything and everyone than actually 'getting it'. Yeah I know, I'm taking the p!ss outta ya mate... :D Thanks for the kind words.


Mick

I agree with Scipio here in that, on your scale, I'd say I'm somewhere between honist and honemeister, but again I wouldnt call myself either.

Its very hard to apply titles or grades to this sort of thing because its all so subjective and down to personal taste. That razor experiment that I've got running at the moment is a case in point. Three razors honed the same way but finished on three different naturals and a plethora of different opinions about which is the nicest to shave with.

I remember reading Lynn saying somewhere here that if you hone your own razors and get edges you like then you become your own honemeister, which I think is a good way of looking at it.

If you look back to the older threads there was some talk about doing a honing proficiency test, and then all the subsequent debate that led to the decision that it wouldnt be a good idea.

The way I think of it is that I enjoy the hobby, I enjoy honing and I enjoy solving the little puzzle that is each razors edge. Once that puzzles solved then I look forward to the next one! :)

Stubear:
The way I think of it is that I enjoy the hobby, I enjoy honing and I enjoy solving the little puzzle that is each razors edge. Once that puzzles solved then I look forward to the next one! :)



Very well put. Thank you.

In most trades you have apprentice and master.

I am still apprentice. But apprentice at what? I will never be a Barber, I only shave one face, mine. A Barber must learn many faces, and the difficulties if each.

But I will get lots of practice, but only one a day. How many faces did a Barber see each and every day??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickR

Line dancing should only be attempted sober, and is a more advanced form of dancing than circle dancing (which is allowed to be done while drunk). Square dancing is more advanced again and while this can be attempted drunk, usually ends with the apprentice smacking into a wall at some point...
I hope you are getting up to a respectable standard Oz, You won't make Druid Honemeister of the first degree if you can't get these basics down... :D


Mick

---

I can't dance to save my life Mick. Looks like I'm doomed to eternal apprenticeship :roflmao:roflmao:roflmao

Since honing seems to be a 'secret art' maybe we should have 33 levels of honing. Every newbie that buys his first set of hones must stand before Lynn who has a copy of the Wiki with him and recite a secret passage. By the Fifth Level, the same initiate will stand before Lynn and his attendant will ask 'what has the master told you?'....'he has told me the rolling-x works well on some wedges.' :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by red96ta

Since honing seems to be a 'secret art' maybe we should have 33 levels of honing. Every newbie that buys his first set of hones must stand before Lynn who has a copy of the Wiki with him and recite a secret passage. By the Fifth Level, the same initiate will stand before Lynn and his attendant will ask 'what has the master told you?'....'he has told me the rolling-x works well on some wedges.' :)

---

I was thinking of something along these exact lines, but didn't wish to sound pedantic.

Awesome. I surrender the chair of Master of The Ridiculous to you!

Superb!

You left out "Honista" which could it in there somewhere.

Actually, I'm enjoying "honist." Kind of a journeyman level. Happy honing for myself, recently honed a bit for a couple of my students, no payment or profit just the pleasure of solving the little problems each razor presents.

Elementary Honist, White-Belt…that's me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickR

And in the not so serious light that Lawsonstone has meant for this thread, I propose a seven year apprenticeship from Honester/Honestrette, Rockhound/Rockbitch, Honist/ette, Honestrier/ette (Notice it takes the word 'Honest' to spell that one.), RockGuru, Stonecollecter and Journeyman Honemeister. Then when they reach their Twentieth year from Honester they can then consider themselves a full Druid Honemeister of the first degree. I reckon by then they might nearly know everything about honing, stones, steels, chemical analysis of stones and steel, circle dancing and human sacrifice...

Just my contribution.


Mick

---

Just remember Lawson in some styles the professor pastmaster also wears a white sash :D

Honestly though, isn't the one who isn't learning or will not admit it who is the one who is lacking?