New Bevel Needed?

I picked up this little Torrey recently and was playing with my new USB microscope looking at the bevel. Most of the edge seems to have a good basic bevel, but this section drew my attention and I wanted to see if any of you more expert honists and honemeisters see here a reason to recut the bevel? It almost looks concave to me. The rest of the edge shows a clean bevel, with some roughness at the edge. I know I need to work on the bevel, but this section made me wonder if I needed just to reset it completely.

at what magnification is that image displayed?

for what it's worth, if a new (to me) razor doesn't shave well I will rework the bevel whether it needs it or not

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Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I picked up this little Torrey recently and was playing with my new USB microscope looking at the bevel. Most of the edge seems to have a good basic bevel, but this section drew my attention and I wanted to see if any of you more expert honists and honemeisters see here a reason to recut the bevel? It almost looks concave to me. The rest of the edge shows a clean bevel, with some roughness at the edge. I know I need to work on the bevel, but this section made me wonder if I needed just to reset it completely.

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Lawson,
I see what you mean by the concave face. If the rest of the bevel looks different, I would reset the bevel. But, I am no honemeister and would defer to those in the know on that.

If I'm using this microscope correctly, it's about 150X.

The blade needs a good general clean up and polish, so I likely will go ahead and put a fresh bevel on it as well after all that other work.

IMO, what's more important will be seeing whether or not a few laps on a hone actually results in metal removal along that bevel. There are lots of times I'll get a razor that looks like it has the remains of an old bevel, but when I start honing, MY bevel does not run all the way to the edge - meaning I have to create a whole new bevel.

Here is a shot of a more typical section of the bevel. Obviously the edge itself is worn but as a beginner, I was looking at the clean shoulder of the bevel, what seems to be a pretty even, flat surface, and as far as I can see, it goes all the way to the admittedly worn edge. So I was thinking maybe it would do with just cleaning up the bevel, not a full set. But that other section got me wondering.

While we're at it, am I looking at the right stuff for assessing the bevel? What should I be looking at, realizing as I do that many other tests and checks are needed. I"m just trying to develop a reasonable starting point.

You should be able to easily shave arm hair at skin after the bevel is set.

You can also use magic marker to see where the whole bevel contacts the stone and where it does not. This will tell you if you need to use some more specialized stroke while honing.

I have a very easy to follow rule Lawson...

If I did not set the bevel myself, then it needs a new bevel for sure...
If the razor is a customer's and I set the bevel myself I look closely before re-setting the bevel :)

If there is a question, re-set the bevel.

To me that one looks like it could use a re-set.

Have fun,

Lynn

Be careful with the microscope... The way light interacts with the blade can play tricks on your eyes. What looks like a concave might just be darker metal.

When I do use a microscope, I rotate the edge toward and away from the lens while watching how the light plays off the edge. I also rotate the blade to different orientations relative to the light source. But... Doing that is what got me away from using the microscope. Under certain light conditions a bevel might look mirror shiny. The same bevel rotated slightly different in the light might have scratches that look like canyons. If you're comparing scratch patterns from one stone to the next, make sure that the blade is oriented exactly the same every time you look at it. IMO it's best to find the orientation that shows the scratches the deepest; while that might not be the prettiest view to look at, it is the most reliable to determine if your scratch pattern is changing.

As those far more expert than me have suggested, if there is any doubt, reset the bevel.

Without regard to the photos ..... just in general, when I get 'old' razors I scope them out with a 30x eye loupe or a 45x stereoscope since that is what I have. Check for chips and what have you. See if the edge will cut arm hair. If it won't I try a TPT. If it is feeling decent I might go to honing it with a 4/8. If it is not at all keen on the thumb pad I try a TNT and if it doesn't pass that it is a bevel set for sure. Circles and X strokes as Lynn does in the RazorCon '09 video.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have a very easy to follow rule Lawson...

If I did not set the bevel myself, then it needs a new bevel for sure...
If the razor is a customer's and I set the bevel myself I look closely before re-setting the bevel :)

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I remember thinking this was a bit immodest, and now, I'm thinking the gunner is on to something. 'First reaction - does he think he's the only guy that knows how to set a bevel?!.

I got 3 wacker blades from John, 2 of which came with edges that were wonderful. I got to learn that the harder blades take more work. What surprised me & made me remember Glen's post here - is that I've not been able to touch up the original bevel. The high quality edge & shaves demonstrate it was certainly done well, but I couldn't just take a few strokes on the 12k and be back in business. I tried. I had to go back to the bevel and from there, could build an acceptable edge.

So that made me think this may be part of what makes Glen insist on a new bevel - it will be one he knows he can develop to a fine edge.

I always use 1000k when I get a razor no matter what, that way I can set my bevel and all my razors have MY bevel on them. The only exception is if someone on here sells me a razor shave ready, then I will keep the edge on the razor if I like it. From the photos I would reset a bevel on that razor, it looks a little rough and irregular to me which may translate to rough shaving, more time on a 1k level would probably level it out better. Make sure the edge connects all the way down with a marker test. After that point you should be able to pop arm hairs easily.

Hey Lawson, given how narrow the bevel is in that photo, I really don't think you are at 150X. I think the width of the bevel would fill the whole field of view at that magnification.

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Originally Posted by pinklather

....now, I'm thinking the gunner is on to something. 'First reaction - does he think he's the only guy that knows how to set a bevel?!.

So that made me think this may be part of what makes Glen insist on a new bevel - it will be one he knows he can develop to a fine edge.

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I think Glen and Lynn are saying pretty much the same thing. If there is any doubt whether there is a workable bevel on the razor, go ahead and put one on. Since the bevel is critical to the final result it only makes sense to be sure it's right.

Like everyone else has said, I too would reset the bevel, there has to be some smooth continuity to it, no convex or concave fluctuations. I almost always set a bevel on any old razor unless I know its history, mostly I just want it my way so I know what I have.

It's probably more like 15-20x. Mark 1 mm on a sheet of paper and focus on that. Then hold a ruler up to the screen and see how long it is.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have a very easy to follow rule Lawson...

If I did not set the bevel myself, then it needs a new bevel for sure...
If the razor is a customer's and I set the bevel myself I look closely before re-setting the bevel :)

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I've always felt this was the best advice I could find when it came to honing.

This takes all the guessing games out of the equation and let's you start from somewhere you know. If all goes well, you probably won't spend much time on the 1k resetting the bevel anyways and you can breeze through the 4k and 8k.

If things don't go well, then you probably should have reset the bevel anyways.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Hey Lawson, given how narrow the bevel is in that photo, I really don't think you are at 150X. I think the width of the bevel would fill the whole field of view at that magnification.

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I agree. I believe that the magnification given on anything that isn't a true compound microscope has been exaggerated. Particularly the USB microscopes sold at RadioShack or ToysRUs, or eBay.... Marketing ... ya know. If it doesn't have two ocular elements in which you can determine for yourself what the magnification is, anything suggested by the manufacturer should be taken with a really really big grain of salt.

I'd reset that one as well.

Most of the time when I get an eBay razor I reset the bevel. I think theres been one, maybe two, that I havent had to do that with, but other than that I do it on them all.

I agree with the other guys as well. If in doubt, break out your 1k. Theres no point in starting higher up the grits and not getting anywhere because you have a bad bevel. Its easier and faster to just go from 1k and know you have a good edge.