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....Can a hone a straight?
Being a chef, I own, sharpen, hone, and maintain a decent size set of knifes. If they aren't sharp, I can't do my work. I'm fairly talented on a whetstone, and I've been wondering....should honing be fairly natural to me? and in that vein, can i use my 1000/6000 stone on a straight, or is the 1000 too coarse?
knife sharpening and razor honing are two different animals.
Razor honing requires a lot lighter touch,that being said there is no reason for you not to learn razor honing properly. you need to have at least a minimal set of stones such as 1k, 3 or 5k ,8k ,12k , CrO strop hanging strop and practice.
Your 1k will work as a bevel setter (if the razor in question needs its bevel set), and you may be able to jump right to the 6k. I'd bet you could shave off the 6k quite comfortably, and I certainly don't think you *need* a 12k or CrO, but I guess that's personal preference. I would, however, recommend getting at least something in the 8-10k range and you'll also need a leather strop of some sort.
I do agree that there is no direct corrolation between knife and razor honing, though. I can't sharpen a knife to save my life, and I have met some knife guys that are equally bad with a razor.
The fact that you wanted to ask this question shows promise! A lot of knife guys just assume "Of course I can!" and then get mad at us when we tell them the reason it isn't working is that they're doing it wrong.
Long story short, you WILL have some useful skills already-- motor coordination for a good smooth stroke, etc. You will also find some things nice-- the razor sets its own angle. You may find some of it fun-- it's a GREAT excuse to buy lots of new hones! And some of it will seem totally like honing on Mars-- almost no pressure, and 1000 grit is where most of us start on a razor, to set the bevel.
It's a fun sport though... jump in, ask questions, check out old threads and how-to videos here on SRP.
Thanks guys! now i just need to get payed, and buy a razor....and everything else! lol
Even though yer a Bruins fan, I'll still be nice and give ya some advice :D
For your first razor you really, really should get a "Shave Ready" first razor so you have an benchmark shave, and a benchmark edge to shoot for....
The biggest differences in the honing styles = No Burr, Way way way less pressure, Sharp is not the only goal, smooth is just as important....
Seriously, what are you drinking?Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
If a razor is in good condition, the minimum you need is a 4000/8000 combo stone and a strop. You can substitute the norton with equivalent stones or a coticule, or add a pasted strop to increase time between hones.
There is NO need whatsoever to stock up on stones if all you want to do is to maintain your own razor.
Even if you want to restore razors, you can get by with less than what you are suggesting here. You don't need to go higher than 8000 to get a good shave, and if you need to restore a damaged edge, a 1000K or 1000 grit sandpaper will suffice. And I've never owned a pasted strop either.
You come across like an audiophile trying to help a newbie buy his first car radio.
I appreciate good tools like anyone else, but there you really don't need to own all this just to hone a razor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt4080
Yes honing a razor should be easier for you to learn since you already understand the concept of creating an edge. I was the same way with sharpening knives and tools. Razors are different. "SHAVE" ready razors are even more different. I use a 1000/6000 King Icebear combo stone for bevel setting and Str8 edge progression. I take my shaving edge much higher as Stefan alluded to which is personal preference. As your honing abilities evolve, you may want to experiment with different higher grit hones as well. That's the fun part.
Mike
When the Norton was the hone Du Jour, the 4/8 was recommended constantly. Now that the Naniwa Superstones have become so popular, and since they come in a wider variety of grits, the recommendations for beginners have too often shifted to them and their diversity. The Norton combo is still a great option for a beginner AND for someone who just wants a basic kit without going wild.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Glen sharpened a razor for me & my sharpening ability took a quantum leap forward just from seeing what a sharp razor is supposed to be like. It was like a lightsaber. I never even knew anything could BE that sharp.
Once a razor's been sharpened, you can keep it going forever using a $15 Swaty hone from eBay. That's about the bare minimum. Although you can't get a razor as sharp as Glen does using a Swaty. He has all kinds of cool stuff. But you CAN get it sharp enough to shave. Many men did, for many decades. I use a Swaty now.
I am indeed a bit of a dinosaur, in that I still use the norton as my main workhorse. I never bought shaptons or naniwas. I did buy a couple of Japanese stones and a DMT, but that goes way beyond 'minimal'.
I even know a guy who has been using only a pasted paddle to maintain his edge for the last 3 years.
I think it is normal that people advise different stones these days (e.g. naniwa instead of norton) but even then a beginner should not need more than the equivalents of the norton 4000 and 8000.
As a sometime maker of knives, all the time sharpener of knives and an avid collector of knives, I found that, regardless of what people say here, that the step from honing a knife and honing a razor is a simple matter. Common sense will tell you to lay the razor flat on the stone. Common sense will tell you to use light pressure. Practice will get you good at it. Stropping on the other hand is something that is best seen before doing...Too many factors to go wrong there.
Mick
Depending on what kind of knives and edges you have put on them you will find it easier to learn than a neophyte. I sharpened knives on very fine stones for decades and found that the "feel" of the edge is very similar, but very light. The one advantage is that the angle of the blade is predetermined by the spine on the stone, so that is easier. It is common sense if one thinks about how thin the razor blade is that if to much pressure is used then it will cause the blade to deform. The angle of the edge on the stone will change which is a no no just like honing a knife. Understanding the different grits of the hones that you are using has a bit of a learning curve because razor edges are very highly polished.
Good luck, these guys here are a wealth of information and there is a lot of it here.
Take Care,
Richard
Do I correctly understand that I wore out all those DMT plates lapping various chunks of rock for nothing? K's of various number and size choke my honatorium and they uselessly, needlessly occupy space? I can't see the keys through the tears. :boohoo:Hopefully I've retained my touch typing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
:confused:
:beer2:I guess we have to find solace where we can :beer2:
Johnny said:
Would a Swaty further refine my edges after I hone at 4k/8k/12k, or does it fall below the 12K somewhere? (And if it does would it make sense to include it as an interim step in the process?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny J
Thanks!
No, I don't think an edge will be improved on a Swaty after a 12k. I also don't see any point in using it as an 8k/12k intermediate. The advantage of a barber hone is simply in its ability to cut both quickly and "finely."Quote:
Originally Posted by mbaglio100
Outstanding. < eBay: "UNwatch".>Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Thank you! :)
I agree with the guys that say that if you can really sharpen a knife, razor honing will not be a steep learning curve. The only difference for me was finer hones and laying the blade flat. I never knew that you were supposed to get a burr until I saw a knife sharpening forum. I always used light, alternating strokes.
Keep in mind that your typical knife stones may have inclusions that can damage the fine edge of a shaver. You might want t invest in some razor-specific hones. My personal suggestion would be a Norton 4K/8K or natural combo BBW/coticule and then finish on a Chinese 12K. You can get the Norton and the CH12K at most any Woodcraft store and be honing in no time. It will probably not be great the first few times but you will get it soon enough.
I'm sure having knife sharpening skills can serve you in learning to hone razors.
Is your 1/6k a King ?. It may be all you need...Or Not. Really depends on a lot of factors. This link may be useful Category:Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki
If you have never shaved with a "sharp" razor you might shop in theQuote:
Originally Posted by mt4080
classified at the top of the page. You may find a well sharpened i.e.
"shave ready" razor under $80...
If you find a less expensive razor at the local antique shop you should
know that the back of the razor is the honing guide (unlike a knife)
and the wiki has a lot on honing a razor. eBay is full of risks stay clear...
Your 1000 grit hone is what we commonly call a bevel setter and used with
a black magic marker can tell you a lot about the state of the bevel.
Sharpening kitchen knives often attempts to develop a burr. For a
razor a burr will cause nicks, cuts and poor shaves. When correctly
honed, you do not want a burr.
You can try and shave off the 6000 hone. Japanese and US hones are
graded by different standards so your 6000 might be close to my
8000...
With a possibly marginal finish hone like the 6000 you might find that the
final edge can be improved by using shave lather to wet the
hone -- lather combined with a light hand can make a hone
act finer than the label on the box.
Given the price of good hones it makes sense to send a razor out.
For ballpark $20 + shipping the razor can be honed and finished
with a kit of hones worth a thousand+ bucks.... and a practiced
hand.
My stone is a Shun...not sure if it graded US, or Japanese...the knives are made in Japan, not sure about the stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Thanks for all the advice guys!
If it is the Shun hone I saw in a local shop it is a very nice honeQuote:
Originally Posted by mt4080
for knives but by eyeball not a finishing hone for razors.......
It is however a very well made hone and might approach
the older carborundum barber hones and thus may
give you a fine edge you can shave with.
Use it as per the instructions with a light touch.
i.e. just the weight of the razor...
You can review the pyramid method in the WiKi (click above
near the top of this page). The alternating visits to both
sides of a combo hone minimizes the development of a
burr and with some modifications could work for you and
your hone.
Shun knives and good razors are both well hardened
steel and need a good modern hone to get the best
edge. I happen to use a barber hone on my Shun knives and
they respond very well. You may have found a
very good multi purpose hone.... Shun does resharpen
their knives... some free for life and others for a song.
...just the weight of the razor.