Complicated (?) taping question

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Glen's observation is to the point. If you were to apply greater pressure to the edge than the spine (torque), then this might be enough to compensate for the edge's greater resistance to abrasion. Exactly how much pressure would overcome the differences in abrasion is an exercise in dynamic physics I'm incapable of. However, given the clearly great differences in steel v. tape it would have to be a generous amount of torque, I think.

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I find myself resting my fingers _on the edge_, very lightly, and not touching the spine at all. So the spine "floats" on the hone, establishing the bevel angle. The edge -- with just a bit of pressure on it -- gets ground away.

8 strokes in one direction. Flip the razor. 8 strokes in the other direction . . .

And I refresh the tape often. I'm still working out the kinks -- color me "newbie".

Charles

I think Str8fencer is correct in his assertions.

I had an ebay razor with several severe nicks in the bevel, and after working it on a Naniwa 1k, I realized that the spline would be severly worn if I continued. So, I applied a layer of tape.

I changed the tape twice over 2-1/2 hours of honing using light pressure. I figured I'd change the tape whenever the sheen was lost on the tape, but it was like the Engerizer Bunny and just kept going and going.

Because I have crappy vision, I bought a regular microscope (the loupes and Carson didn't allow me to see anything). I don't know how much microscope you can get for $525, but whatever amount that is, that's what I have.

Under 100X on the microscope, I could detect no sign of a double bevel, not any sign of a rounded bevel. The scratch marks were straight and uniform over the entire bevel.

This suggest to me that Str8fencer is correct. The tape has a tendency to glide over the surface of the hone, rather than be abraided by it. Moreover, I think the tape has some flex in it, whereas steel does not. Thus, the flex allow the tape to resist abrassion also. Add both of these elements together, and the tape wears at a slower rate than the steel does.

Of course, I could be wrong regarding what's happening with the tape; but, I know what I'm seeing under the microscope is accurate. So, I think St8fencer is right on the mark on this.

Kent

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Originally Posted by klsmsn

Under 100X on the microscope, I could detect no sign of a double bevel, not any sign of a rounded bevel. The scratch marks were straight and uniform over the entire bevel.

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As the tape wears gradually, the transition from a taped to an untaped bevel would also be gradual. The geometry between both spine width extremes would never allow a rounded bevel and you would need to add tape to create a secondary bevel.

Thanks, Utopian, for "straighten me out" on straight geometry. I see your point.

This particular razor I'm working on still has a bit of nick on it, but I had some gun work to do, so wasn't able to finish completely setting the bevel yet.

I take it that in applying some new tape to continue, if there is any difference in thickness of the old tape from honing, versus the new tape, then I should see some indications of a second bevel. However, the wear on the old tape seemed insignificant, so I'm not sure I'd see any difference in the bevel at all. But, when I get to working on it, I plan to examine it under the microscope as I work on it.

If you want to see a secondary bevel, hone without tape or with one layer of tape until the bevel is fully being cut. Look at the bevel under the scope. Now add one or two layers of tape and hone 10 more strokes. If you look at the bevel again under the scope, you will see a small second bevel near the edge. This is because the additionally taped spine lifts the spine higher and this causes the part of the bevel distal to the edge to be lifted off of the hone, thereby concentrating the honing very near the edge.

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Originally Posted by Tolduonce

But, I did find S.S. adhesive tape and got to wondering. Isn't S.S. harder than razor steel (except for S.S. blades)? If this is the case, should it wear down slower than the edge during honing?

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No SS is not harder than razor steel especially if it is tape that cannot undergo a heat treatment to harden it but it would be harder than vinyl tape :)

Yes, Utopian, I understand that.

The question is not DO I want to see a second bevel; rather, it's WILL I see a second bevel if I apply new tape? Of course, I doubt this can really be answered until I do it and look.

I'm wondering if you have only .001"-.002" (mmm...perhaps more, hard to say) of wear on the tape, and then replace it, will a second bevel be observable?? I'm thinking probably not, but then, I don't know.

Kent

have never used tape just honed razor as is on surgical black arkansas which never really wore the spine just polished it now i'm wondering what are the benefits of using tape other than protecting the spine does it make for a better edge?? and make the razor shave better??

all the years i worked in the meat industry i steeled my knives at the same angle as i stoned them so the edge straightened properly and that's how i've always looked at sharpening a razor stoned at the same angle as it would be stropped so the edge is perfectly straight but i'm always open to new ideas and ways of doing things so i learn plus i'm a bit ocd and everything has to be perfect etc

Nik

Str8fencer opines the tape, being "softer" or "more flexible" is more resistant to hone wear than steel.

This doesn't make sense to me. How could a softer material be more resistant to abrasion that a harder substance, i.e., steel? And I don't see how a substance's flexibility could impart wear resistance either.

Can someone explain?