I am a honing noob and have a question. What is a half stroke? I have seen it mentioned in several posts and am not sure what it is.
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I am a honing noob and have a question. What is a half stroke? I have seen it mentioned in several posts and am not sure what it is.
danricgro,
It is an up and down pass on the hone without flipping the razor in between the up and the down - the up is a conventional edge leading pass, the down is spine leading, and would be considered a back-hone.
It is good for removing metal more quickly than an X-stroke would. I use it a lot with slurries on my Spyderco UltraFine hone.
The various strokes used for razor sharpening - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
To me a full stroke is first going one way up the stone edge leading and then flipping the razor and going down the other way also edge leading. Spine leading on a hone is something else altogether not part of a normal stroke.
Also commonly refered to as Japanese honing...
But as Phat Man already pointed out it is more of a metal cutting stroke...
I've seen them referred to as back and forth strokes too, and that more accurately depicts them IMHO. I will do them sometimes when setting a bevel in between circles. This is a video of the one and only Mastro Livi demonstrating the strokes. Don't try this at home. :D
YouTube - SnakeRazor
I call them Japanese strokes or chisel strokes. They're effectively fairly similar to the circle strokes that have become so popular in the past year.
So presumably these strokes could be used instead of circles where significant metal removal is required for whatever reason, bevels, restoration etc
I would not presume that, you are going to have to mess with both and decide for yourself on a razor by razor situation...
I use Japanese strokes as part of pre-bevel re-creation... I use circles as part of honing to set a real bevel just like Lynn showed us all...
I am also reluctant to the part about sticking a finger on top of the blade, that just is not a good idea, in general selective pressure like that is used to push a odd blade into compliance with the hone, it again is used selectively not as a standard system...
My thoughts on honing differ greatly with those of Coticule.bf but you have to understand they are a small specialized group... We at SRP try and give info that works in general and for all honing system not just one... Or we take the time to break it down an explain each specialized application..
This is valid point. Coticule.be is about trying to maximize the efficiency of coticules. That's the bottom line. While other stones are discussed and appreciated, there is just not enough expertise there outside of coticule honing to make broad application.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I actually have incorporated putting my finger on the spine while doing half-strokes. It works very effectively for me, but I prefer coticule honing. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for other systems. It's been a long long time since I've used other stones anyway, so I don't recommend much of anything concerning them :rofl2:
I was first introduced to half-strokes by Glen, and they've been a consistent part of my honing arsenal (as have circles). :beer1:
With or without a finger on the spine/blade, I like half-strokes when setting a bevel because they allow for greater speed. Of course you need to be very careful that your stroke remains even. Which is why I start out slowly, then pick up speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by decraew
Hmmmm, I am not so sure of that at all, in fact I would have to say I disagree, that not only are they not faster, but they are also way more likely to cause an uneven bevel than either Circles or X strokes... Again I am not referring to just one system , but saying this in general... If you are referring to only Bart's system then I would have to say I have no opinion, as I don't find that system to be consistent enough for me...
But referring to many bevel setting systems on multiple stones I haven't found anything that is even near as fast or as accurate as Lynn's 20 circles to sharp...
Now if we are going back to what I use Japanese honing for, which is Restoration of damaged blades then I would agree that the Japanese honing is very fast and allows for selective pressure to be applied for correction of bad areas in the pre-bevel..
Perhaps you could explain a bit more in detail what system you are referring to????
Sure. I am effectively thinking about dilucot. I'm not certain whether it would work on other stones. I sometimes use naniwas and with those I don't use it. When compared to the regular X-strokes, they are faster in my experience because you simply do more iterations in a given time period. I don't know whether circles would be better. If you do the circles at the same speed and don't see why there could be a great difference between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I fully agree that the danger is having uneven bevels. That's why I start out slooooowly until I have the path in my fingers, then only I will speed up. I have had uneven bevels but mainly with razors already in a bad condition. Yesterday I honed a NOS razor using fast half-strokes: perfect bevels :-D
Hungry
Gonna grab a bit now
Cheers
Another consideration:
Most of my coticule using friends use smaller stones (30-45mm wide). Doing circles on a stone that narrow doesn't come as easily for me, so I prefer the half-strokes with finger placed /moved strategically in order to prevent developing an uneven bevel. Yes you have to pay more attention to do this, but it's not particularly challenging, IME.
On a 3" wide stone, circles are so easy and fast that I would prefer them to half-strokes in that application
Or bouts. I have a Les Latneuses coticule bout which is useless except when doing circles.Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondesi
I prefer circles in general to the back and forth. I do the b & f for metal removal but I feel the circles create a symbiotic relationship between the spine and the edge that back and forth strokes cannot do as efficiently. I think that relationship is important , just IMO.
No doubt that circles are more easily done on a 2 1/2 to 3" wide stone. I always follow my circles with X strokes. I believe the striations/scratches are better at an angle to the bevel for more efficient cutting of the whiskers and that is better achieved with the X. Again, just IMHO.
Thanks Paul and decraew that makes sense now, I would have to give way to both of your experiences using Bart's methods on the smaller Coticules... Different ideas on different systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
And mine +1,,
heel forward or X IMHO
Back to the OP...
I am one who does not use half strokes or circles when honing. I only use a rolling X stroke. It does take longer but it is very consistent. If I want rapid stock removal I use a coarser grit.
Just my $.02,:)
So correct me if Im wrong but as someone very new to honing I should forget about half strokes and work on mastering the X-stroke. I am using the Norton 220/1k, 4k/8k and a Naniwa 12k. On the few razors I have honed I test shave off the 8k and do not move on to the 12k till the shave is comfortable off the 8k. Any other advice is more than welcome.
P.S. I hoped to get a couple of responses on this thread and it has turned into a great discussion. Learning alot. Thanks men,
IMHO, master the rolling X stroke first then move on to the other strokes to see where they fit in the honing progression.
Hope this helps,:)
With your setup, I'd focus on:Quote:
Originally Posted by Danricgro
* Learning what a truly set bevel feels like
* X strokes
* Circles
in that order. The dirty (not so) secret thing about honing is that great edges are 90% what happens at the bevel setting stage and 10% what you do after that. We all focus on the esoterica associated with our preferred stones, but when push comes to shove many will admit that the differences aren't as significant as it may seem.
Plus, at the end of the day, many go from their expensive stones to a really inexpensive pasted strop setup to finish the edge to their preference... Point is, just like a house, make sure you're working on a good foundation, and everything will be fine :gl:
What's the deal with these Les Latneuses Stones. I've heard that vein a lot lately, Are they the latest and greatest, or just what's being pushed these days....I've must have heard that vein name 10x this week from different guys...Quote:
Originally Posted by decraew
I'm assuming someone on Coticule.be said what a great edge they got off one....? Your saying yours is not the great.....
I'm curious....PM me....
Thanks....
Rich
Rich,Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
Bart made the comment that the les latneuses was a fast cutting stone, and the other side is a marbly coticule that tends to leave a very smooth edge that some guys prefer. Plus they look cool... No one ever said they are the best, but he said he preferred them for the almost magnetic feeling of the razor on the stone...
That lead to several guys getting the idea that they are the absolute best strata of coticule available, and there has been a huge demand for them... I have one, but I still use my La Petite Blanche stones over them.
They do leave a nice edge though...
Best,
Paul
When visiting Ardennes, I had the chance to test out some hones. I finally picked two Les Latneuses, one 12.5 x 3cm, one bout. Because after a brief test (half strokes for half a minute or so) they appeared to be very fast cutters. I used them at home and the two I have are effectively fast cutting coticules that leave a very comfortable edge. However, I don't like the bout that much because of its dimensions (sides are 9cm, 7.8cm, 6.7cm and 6.4cm) which makes it less practical to use as far as I'm concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
However, I'm not sure that every Les Latneuses will show these characteristics. If I remember correctly, two other bouts were tested and they seemed slower and gave different feedback. These other bouts were from a different batch however.
Btw Paul, I prefer my Les Latneuses over my La Petite Blanche, but mainly because my LPB is a 6x20cm stone which is just not that practical. They both give me great edges.
St. Paul Posse in da house!Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
Yeah, as my official real-life mentor says, the proper honing technique foundation is in the almighty X-stroke. It's the beginning and the end of my honing of str8s. Actually, now that I'm deep into it, getting consistent scratch patterns from heel to toe (60x-100x microscope), I've only used the circles for refreshing the edge of a razor that needs a light touch-up, and then the circles are because I am intimately aware, being the only user of the open razor, that the toe was used far less than the middle portion of the blade.
There's not much point in experimenting with lots of alternative or exotic honing techniques/schemes if you haven't familiarized yourself with the basic X-stroke.