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So I've recently started honing razors for a few people where I live and have run across a slight setback in my (limited) technique.
It seems that whenever I start to get a decent edge using 1k and then 4k on my Norton; that when I move on to my Eschers that I lose some sharpness (I always use the hair trick method to see how it catches).
I usually do bevel setting with circles and then move on to x strokes.
Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
Edit: shoot, wrong forum. Sorry guys.
I would first suggest you move up in grit and don't worry about the HHT. Second, do you use a slurry with the Escher? If so, that could be part of the problem.
I'm not really that familiar with the Escher though. Should be some more responses soon.
If your getting proper results off the 4k and loosing something when you move to the esher I would be looking at what is happening to the edge durring that transition. I'd check for flatness, stone edge issues on all stones, and so forth.
Still there are many reasons that the edges can go south, it just a process of elimination :)
Same here.
I have norton 4k/8k and on 4k I get good results with HHT but after 8k not so good, although after stroping all is well again.
Well there have been posts by honemeisters that say the 'toothy' edge left at the 4k level will catch hair while the smoothed edge left by the 8 or above will not catch as easily. The toothy surface grabs the hair better. As for the Escher, Sham (hi_bud_gl) pointed out to me that it is best to move to the Escher after you are already at the 12k level. Less strokes and wear on the expensive stone.
Moving to a fine finishing stone too soon can mean a lot more time on the rock. The above is not necessarily the source of the problem, if there is one, but might be or might have something to do with it. Now that it won't cut your hanging hair as well as it did does it offer a good shave ?
I think Jimmy is right on target here. His question about the shave quality is really the key point. If you are going backwards when it comes to how the razor shaves you have a different problem than the variability in the HHT.
I use an Escher almost every day for finishing razors. The key is to limit the number of strokes and definitely limit the pressure. These two things can kill and edge without question.
I typically on so 10 strokes with water on the Escher following an 8K stone.
Have fun,
Lynn
Hi JimmyHAD,Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I think that it must be the 'toothy' edge (microserrations?) that catch so well. My blades do strop up well, but it seems like I have to strop them frequently (during the shave even) in order to keep the edge going.
It seems like my main issue, as you say, is jumping grits too quickly. I'll pick up an 8k asap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFDavis11
I switch up the slurry use. One of my Eschers makes a good slurry (using an old arkansas mini) , while the other is too hard
How does slurry effect edge? I was under the impression that it leaves a less serrated edge.
Samual, are you going to the Escher after the 4k???? that is what I am reading
Lynn, how many strokes on an escher/thuri would you say that you start to degrade the edge ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
I believe, and again this is outside my expertise area, that the Eschers with slurry would create a more "toothy" and rougher edge than without slurry. I would almost think, and I'm really reaching back to four or five years ago in experience, that you'd be moving lower in grit and not in the direction that you really want to.
I would suggest following Lynn's advice to the letter.
Both, Glen and Lynn, have waaaaay more knowledge in this area than I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel
Eschers do best when working from a high grit stone to the Escher as a finisher. Are you going straight from a 4K to the Escher, that's what I got from the post. When you're done with the 4K side you should be able to shave arm hair at midlength.
I'll move it over to honing....
zib
Agreed, it may be better coming off an 8k, also, How's your pressure, should be zilch/zero on an Escher....
I have merged the two threads (one that was here and one that Zib moved in from the Hones section) into this single thread.
Are you losing sharpness or gaining smoothness.? How is the shave ?
As mentioned above an 8k before the Escher would be good.
Is your Escher absolutely flat? You should not lose sharpness even if you move from 4K to Escher. Try with little or no slurry.
I do jump from 4K to the Eschers. I was under the impression that slurry had more cutting quality which is why I use it before moving to no slurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
Absolutely flat. When I got them they had hardly, if ever, used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Just to make sure we have the same definition of 'flat' here is a tutorial in the SRP Wiki. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel
the only time i lost keenes and just slightly is when honing on just slurry, may be a little dense. all thought the edge was muchh softer against my skin. going from light slurry diluted to water works fine , and finishing on a very very light slurry worked . i found just finishing on water also does the job. i did lots of laps on water and found the edge to crispy smooth for me , after 8k if your razor is shaving at that level then i'm sure 10 to 30 laps on water would not loose keeness. you should be able to finish after 8k no problem with any natural or 12k manamade . i did this a thew times coming of 8k norton, it should and does work. i'm still unsure weather slurry finishing or water finishing on my escher. which one works best . water on coticule works great so i'm going with water on escher to finish, but keeping it at 10 to 30 laps
In my experience for most razors, once I go over 15-20 strokes, I have gone to far. This is why I have ended up sticking with the 10 strokes and just water. There have been occasional razors however where up to 20 strokes did not take them over. What's funny to me is that you feel the stone working a lot more with minimal pressure than you do with more pressure than the weight of the blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by superbleu
Have fun,
Lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel
Slurry on the Escher, from what I've experienced and shared with talking with other members, merely speeds the escher up a bit but doesn't lower the grit of the stone. For example, if the Escher is roughly 15K then it's still 15K with slurry it's just a little faster.
which means you'd be jumping from a 4K to a 15K stones.
Then it sounds like I really need to just bunker down and get a 8K/10K Norton or some such stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
Thank you for the estimate grit on Eschers. I wasn't sure because one them is definitely green (and makes slurry) while the other is yellow/brown and doesn't slurry.
I can get HHT after the DMT325 grit stage. It is really not that hard. If the bevel is set properly, the hair will catch and pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
All the colors vary in speed but share similar results. For example, I have a dark Blue escher and it works very well on slurry but it's slower than say a Y/G Escher so I use more laps to get the results I want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel
I would definitely get an 8K stone which is why I always recommend the 4/8K norton for a starter synthetic stone.