Is there a special method to use when polishing a blade with a Coticule? I didn't see anything in the wiki\
I'm sorry I just found it in the wiki
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Is there a special method to use when polishing a blade with a Coticule? I didn't see anything in the wiki\
I'm sorry I just found it in the wiki
It helps if you know what a 'coticule' is. It's not like asking the same about a Nani 12K, all cotis are different both in clarity and abrasive speed.
If you are finishing with a coti, make sure your blade is already sharp. Most come off an 8K then go to coti with water. Try 60 laps and test. Repeat if necessary.
You kinda need to be careful with asking on a Coticule.. You asked how to Polish" with one which Scipio answered, but your going to get a ton on responses and do a ton of reading about "Honing" with a Coticule which are two different things...
You also have to understand some of the naturals, and especially the Coticule, some can do what is called Auto-Slurry, some of them do this way faster then others, and this creates a self limiting sharpness factor.. So check the water about every 5 laps if there is slurry in there, then dip or spray for clean water to "Polish"
Use a google "site" search and you will find a lot of info. Look forQuote:
Originally Posted by ShoreBird
postings by Bart and also scan Welcome to Coticule.be - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
The Coticule is a natural stone that contains garnets.
Garnets are fragile and mostly round.
Many folk start by rubbing their coti and building a slurry.
That process crushes and liberates garnets resulting in
a hone that cuts steel quickly. As the edge develops
the slurry is often diluted and the hone transitions and
begins to polish more than cut. The soccer ball shape
of the garnets tends to make shallow scratches in steel.
Combine this natural dynamic of the hone with a light touch
and many folk get a fine shave.
You can use a modest sized coti like a barber hone
for touch ups. Rinse it under the tap and give the razor 5-6 laps
strop and enjoy.
Perhaps this will help.
Good link....Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe
Most should skip the step where the
razor is dulled on a tumbler/ glass. The value is
that when experimenting the blade is known dull.
The resulting edge is the result of what you just tried.
The negative is that sharpening a blade that is
dull is a lot harder than refreshing a blade that
has been shaving fine for weeks and now does
not respond to the strop.
They are natural hones and can vary a lot
from one to another. You can collect some
Coticule slurry stones to see the variability
if you are curious.
For example, My coti is about a medium softness, but not self slurry building, I have to use something else to start it, the razor will not start one. Now my BBW glued to the other side it the hardest hone I have, harder than my nakayama asagi. With a pretty darn good polish even though it's still got deep scratches.
You really have to play with each and every stone to get a feel for THAT particular stones abilities.
Do you have pics of the stone...? and when you say, Polish, You mean, Finishing...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe
That is what I was looking for. A explanation of the unicot and dilucot methods is what I was looking for. I read on some earlier post about special considerations with the coticules.
I don't have a coticule , I use naniwa 12000 ss and I have a Thuringian for finishing stones. I also bought a jnat from ebay that was "advertised" as 16000 grit, just tried it today and i'll test the shave tomorrow. I am considering a coticule and I just wanted to find out if there is anything special about final polishing with one.Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
Unicot and Dilucot discuss how to work through the entire process from bevel setting phase through finishing.
For just finishing, it would depend on what you're coming from, but it would just be a matter laps on water only. Like Glen mentioned, if you have one that auto-slurries quickly, you may need to do laps under running water, but those seem to be uncommon, from my reading...
i've never yet had a coticule that auto slurrys , i'd like one actauly . finishing is just a matter of clean water after 8k level and has to be shave ready then coticule will add that nicer edge only if you have a good edge after 8k norton etc, i've tryed it and works great. mostly i go through dilucot and touch up with just water when needed .
Coticules give razors a very different feeling finishing edge, almost as if the blade isn't sharp because it doesn't feel harsh to the face, but in reality the razor is still very sharp.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShoreBird
Old barbers loved these stones because of how gentle they feel to their client's skin with limited irritation.
For finishing a razor you just do water, depending on the layer you may need more strokes or not as many. I've used oil on them before as a final polish step and the razor gets very sharp this way but I was warned not to keep using oil unless I wanted the stone to become oily.
The actual process of using a coticule is really no different from using any other hone. You can start with slurry or without and dilute from there. The more slurry, the faster the cut; the thicker the slurry the lower the limit on the final sharpness (hence the dilution). With any stone, you have to play with it to figure out how much slurry to start with and at what rate to dilute it. That is the art of slurry.
But once you figure out how to figure out a stone, they are all the same.
+1 I've never had one either. It would have to be awfully soft and/or the honer applying a lot of pressure. :shrug: Then again, I've only had a few over 20 of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gary haywood
I've got one that releases slurry with medium pressure. It's a really fast cutter, which I suppose is nice if that's how you like to use your coticules. Let me know if you want to play with it, Jimmy, I can send her your way.
As previously mentioned, These stones can become agressive when a slurry is created, so for final polishing, you want to do so with just water. Less is more as they say, and I'd start conservetively. 10 lapps or so, test...etc..rinsing the stone with fresh water so there is no slurry..The softer stones can create slurry rather quickly. You can use some of the other methods mentioned as a starting point, but don't tie yourself to it. Don't drag your razor across a glass.. Each of these stones have their own personality, like razors...each is different.
If you want one that will work well as a final polisher, A hard one will do. When you scratch the surface of one, it will leave no trace, no mark... Mostly these are pale yellow, or sometimes even greenish. I've seen many from the La Nouvelle vein that would work...It this is what you want, be sure to tell the vendor of your intentions...
Thanks for the offer Dylan but I just did an inventory and I have 17 of them so that is enough ....... if there ever is enough. :) Thinking about it came to me that if I was ever going to use a coticule in a manner, pressure wise, where I would create slurry I always have just hit it with the slurry stone before I begin honing. Dilute and get to clean water as I progress. So it is quite possible that one or more of my coticules would create slurry with moderate pressure but it is not something I have tried to produce. Maybe one of these days if I'm in the mood.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I think perhaps my definition of auto slurry and yours are two entirely different things...
Take any Coticule do 10-20 finish laps no extra pressure at all, you will find particles in the water... If you continue you will release more and more. Even a PHIG will auto slurry some stones do this faster, some slower...
The Coticules in general are very noticeable in the auto slurry... You can see the yellowish traces in the water pretty easy...
I am not talking about a milky Cutting slurry...
This has always been a pet theory of mine about why Natural stones are much harder to overhone on, that the particles in the water create a self limiting factor, I haven't tried the reverse on this by honing under clear water enough to overhone an edge, someday I'll try it...
i have to say i have somtimes noticed when using clear water . that the water once settled on the blade somtimes looks like it has a dry lime in it kind of like a ting of cloudiness. i only notice this once the water semi drys on the metal, may be that is a ting of slurry.As you say not a yellow cream or milky white slurry just a tint of cloudiness , very light at that.
gary
Congratulations. You do in fact have a coticule that auto-slurries. As Glen pointed out, it's just a matter of degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by gary haywood
When i think of auto slurry Coticule i think of this type
Coticule042 - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone
As far as i know that is the only layer that is this extreme
I'll have to make a point of looking to see just what develops with water only when I'm honing with a coticule. I never noticed in the past but wasn't really paying attention to that aspect.
Jimmy, I tried this with most of my coticules in response to THIS thread and these were my findings quoted from that thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I decided to try some of my coticules for a mini experiment with a crappy razor. I did 20 diagonal chisel/japanese strokes (with pressure) on each side with several coticules with water.
16 coticules had visible slurry after 20 strokes on each side
1 had visible slurry after 40 strokes
1 had visible slurry after 60 strokes
The amount of slurry formed varied drastically among the hones, but the point is that all released at least some slurry within a reasonable time of use. With further use, especially in the multiples of hundreds of strokes described above, most (or at least many) coticules will develop a slurry with the pressure that would be used for bevel setting and sharpening.
Thanks Utopian, I have always used the coticule following the 8k level or, if strictly honing with the coticule, after use with a slurry stone. So obviously in those cases I either already had some slurry, milky or diluted, on the hone, or wasn't using enough pressure in the finishing stages to generate any that I noticed.
I'll be more observant of it since reading of other honers experiences with it. I couldn't help notice that the coticule mentioned earlier in the thread by janivar123 and linked here was recommended to be used in this manner...... "excellent. hone must be used under a slow running tap. ". What fun, an advanced honing technique I've yet to try. :rofl2:
Oddly, that hone is described as being slow! It seems counterintuitive that a slow hone would release so much slurry as to require a constant stream of water. Have fun experimenting--after all, that is the fun of having all these rocks!
Coticules don't really follow normal laws of honing. My la nouvelle veine is the hardest coticule I own, won't scratch at all, and its the fast stone I own on slurry, period.
now that is very true , i hear fokes saying the hard coticules are better finishes and soft one are faster cutters. i found theu all finish more or less the same . and if it cuts fast with slurry it does if it does'nt it just does'nt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
Bart evaluates each coticule , i've been with him and seen him do this. if he says it slow its slow if he finds its a fast one he will say so in the vaults i have purchased two or three and he has always been spot on.
gary
I think a point to consider here is that no natural stone will follow a "rule" of honing. Synthetics will because they are all produced the same way and, in theory, should all perform the same way.
But naturals are all different and will all perform differently. Thats why it takes some time to learn how to get the best out the particular one you have. All part of the fun! :)