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Hello All,
I'm new to this straight razor game and I'm interested in honing my own razors. i currently have a 1000 grit stone and a norton 4/8. My understanding is that I need one more hone around 12k. Can someone confirm that is the case?
Also, my razor has a factory "shave ready" edge. I'm going to get it professionally honed but I was just curious as to what hone you would start on regarding sharpening a factory shave ready razor!
Thanks,
Stultsy
If you want another hone, then yes, a 12k would be in the right range. Alternatively you could get a barber hone or a pasted strop.
How you would start to hone the razor would depend on whose factory it left, but in general it's easier to just start out with a fresh bevel, so that would mean starting on the 1k. An alternative would be to work your way down from high grit to low. That is, hone it with the 12k, strop, and shave. If that doesn't work, then drop to the 8k, then 12k, strop, and shave...
There was a time, way back in the day, like 2006-7, when all the guys here only used their norton 4/8K to hone a razor from bevel to finish.
Do you NEED a 12K stone, no!
Do you NEED a 1K for bevels? NO! but it makes it easier and faster...
Can you hone from start to finish on a Coticule alone? YES!!!
See coticule.be if you want one of those Belgians.
Are Japanese Natural hones amazing and really cool to buy? YES! Do you need it, no!
Eschers can be 500-700.00USD on Ebay but should you buy it because someone told you to?
Here's the point I am trying to make; you can easily shave off the norton 4/8K if you know how to hone a razor right....but that takes months and a lot of practice to learn to do, it's not the hone's fault if the edge seems not as good as it should be...
Have you been using a straight razor that was honed by someone else for a few months to get the handling of the blade on your face down? Factory edges are not shave ready from what I've experienced.
We are all here to help you learn the most you can with the money and means that you have, please don't break the bank on all the hones in the world if you're new and don't have experience honing razors by simple means first.
If you have a 1K & a Norton 4/8 you're all set. Maybe a Norton flattening stone or a D8C for lapping so you don't have to keep buying sandpaper, but otherwise, you're good for now.
You can experiment w/ different finishers if you want, but you shouldn't need them to get a good shave. If you do, you haven't gotten all you can out of your 8k. HAD can be fun, but it's not essential--it's a luxury only.
If you want to play around w/ coticule only honing, I'd recommend you do so after you can reliably get a good edge off the Norton--slurry dilution on those can be really finicky anyway, doubly so if you're just learning to hone. Work on getting repeatable results first so you always have some method to turn to should a honing experiment not work.
You don't really need any other hones. It's a luxury...albeit a luxury we all seem to go after...lol...just ad it to the AD list. My first hone was a Norton 4/8k combo and it was all I used. Watch Glens (gssixgun) video on one stone honing or Lynns. :)
Here's a good link from the wiki, should answer some of your questions...
What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stultstastic
Someone can and that someone is you.
You need to shave test your razor....
A finisher is nice to have.
After you learn to hone with the combo
you can compare and contrast with a
professional edge to see if you need
or want that last bit of magic.
Your Norton 4K/8K is a wonderful hone you may not need any more.
The pyramid method works wonders with a Norton combo.
One hint on the Norton is one time and one time only
lap the top 1mm of hone away. Nortons seem to have
a surface skin that is not as good as the rest of the hone,
especially on the 8K side. Two dollars of coarse wet/dry
paper is all it takes to get that 1mm off.
Go to Forums, then scroll down to Honing. You will find a sub title: Advanced Honing. Check out Lynn and Glen One Stone Honing. I think that's where you will find a video link to where Glen shows how to use the 4/8 to put a nice edge on a razor! No Rocket Science just technique and patients!
If the link isn't there give me a PM and I'll get it to you!
Spock lied all those years ago! Computers are NOT LOGICAL!
thanks everyone for all the advice. I will definitely check out the videos on one stone honing!
best,
Stultsy
I believe that this is more true of the 4K side.Quote:
Originally Posted by niftyshaving
Stultsy,
You got some good advice here, but those advisors are obviously trying their best to disguise their Hone Acquisition Disorders. What they are really trying to say is that you need a dozen hones, minimum, and probably you'd best be equipped with a dozen hones from each manufacturer and quarry.
There, the truth is out. :gl:
:beer2: Actually, you'd likely be well served with a Norton 4/8K combo for anything other than major edge recreation.
You didn't mention it so please know that you'll need some way to flatten your stones. You can get a DMT 325 as shown in this video, or you can go to a tile store and offer them a couple of bucks for a piece of granite tile with a corner chipped off it. :) With some 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper you'll be set.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stultstastic
This video Glen posted will show you exactly how to use a Norton 4/8K to get a usable razor shave-ready in less than 15 minutes.
At this point in time it should be about all you'll need.
YouTube - gssixgun Honing on a Norton 4-8
And here I was, thinking the answer to how many hones one really needs would be in the hundreds.. :w :p
You will certainly need one stone for each razor
Also make sure that you get the stone from the same country that razor was made:mace:
You already have more then enough. Dont buy anything now
Right now you have all you can possibly need
you might want to add a finisher later, but that is so much a question of taste that theres no way for you to decide anythime soon
I see that you have not succumbed to H.A.D. so your question is valid. Will you need more than a 1,4, & 8k set of stones? Other than something to lap them with...Nope :)
Will you want more stones? You betcha! :beer2:
Don't worry though. H,A.D. comes with a HUGE support group and there is always a meeting to help sooth your condition
Gotta love SRP.
In my brief but intense experience, there is no such thing as "factory shave ready." Whatever edge is on the razor from the "factory" is not going to be a shaving edge. A shaving edge on a straight really needs to be the result of hand-honing. I know the "factories" say that, but I never got a new razor with a factory edge that was a good shaver out of the box, and I don't recall anyone else who did, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stultstastic
I'd say if you want to hone from bevel to smooth shave, get yourself the 1K and 10K or 12K. Saves you time and grief. You can get splendid results with the 1K-4K-8K-12K series.
How much of a difference is the average person going to notice between a razor honed on a norton 4k/8k and finished on a pasted strop as opposed to a razor honed on a single coti?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemantra
IME the Coticule edges feel smoother off the finish on Carbon blades but not as sharp as the norton edge if the blade is tuned in well enough. It's all preference and what you like to feel on your shave. I have used just a coticule to hone from bevel to end about 100 times already and it's easy enough with practice, I still prefer a finish after on a Nakayama over the coticule finish itself. Shaving off the 8K is nice and easy if done right, I haven't even tried paste to finish off the 8K, I shaved off the 8K for months.
Although this was certainly the case in the recent past, it is no longer a hard and fast rule. There are many members, including one prominent vendor, that can say that they've shaved with a factory edge, with satisfactory results. Will it be J-nat sharp? Probably not, but still shave ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by LawsonStone
Sorry to jump in here, but lets say you have your razors professionally honed and refresh with pastes every so often when you need to. How long can the pastes keep a razor shave ready? And then onnce you've exhausted refreshing the razor with a pasted strop what is the next course of action? Can you take the razor to a naniwa 12k and then some Crox and your back at shave ready? Or do you need to go back down and bevel set and progress all the way again?
But no straight-shaver counts as an "average person." By adopting the straight razor, a man has already defined himself as beyond "average," a man with high powers of discrimination and exquisite taste!
Even so, likely many wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but we've got a mystique to maintain here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemantra
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemantra
This is up for debate, some think that using paste isn't going to even round the edge after a while some do.
You can use a high grit stone for a touch up but you really need to use it when the edge just starts to lose something, if not you need to start at a lower grit and so on. It depends on how far gone the razor has been used and pasted.
Hey fellas,
thanks for all the advice it is much appreciated.
it is interesting about "shave ready" factory versus "shave ready" professionally honed razors. My razor does not pass the hanging hair test but it certainly does pass the shave test. I get some pretty great shaves and any problems are purely due to lack of experience I think. I need to caveat this comment though by stating that I am not a hairy fellow and my hair is very soft so maybe I just don't need that sharp a razor to get the job done.
Anyways, don't get me wrong, I'm going to learn how to hone and get a professionally honed razor so the shaves get even better!
thanks,
Stultsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawsonStone
This one shaved great right out of the wrapper IMO.
I suspect that one did! I imagine those vintage razors shipped shave-ready. I am pretty sure the ones of modern manufacture do not. At least, I've read and heard scores of accounts of people buying "factory sharp" razors that weren't shave-ready, and very few who bought a brand-new Dovo or TI that was ready to shave right out of the factory sealed container.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dllandry
But that Dubl-Duck...you likely didn't even have to take it out of the plastic to shave with it. Whiskers fell out from just being impressed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dllandry
I am sure an NOS dubl duck that was honed years ago shaves great LOL.
There's a difference in honing quality now compared to then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawsonStone
Ignatz mentions in his review of the latest TI Grelot Crown Silverwing that TI has updated their honing process:
So who knows, maybe we'll see true shave ready razors(barring personal preference) from the factory in the near future.Quote:
My understanding is that TI has improved their method of sharpening such that the blades they deliver to the customer are really damn close to being ‘shave ready’. [...] But I can report that this blade (as it arrived from the factory) was absolutely shave ready for me. No, wait. Let me phrase it more strongly. This blade is the sharpest thing that TI has ever put into my hands right out of the factory.