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My sharpening experience is based on my kitchen knives.
When sharpening my knives I use trailing strokes, i.e. the spine is leading in the direction of the stroke and the edge trails behind.
Watching Lynn and some other razor videos people seem to be be sharpening razors using push strokes, i.e. the edge leads with the spine following.
Is using a push stroke merely a sharpening idiosyncracy or is there some deeper meaning behind it?
Other more experienced people will most likely respond as well, but here's my limited understanding.
When sharpening knives, some people like to create a burr with a push stroke, and then polish it off when you flip the knife. Myself, I'm all about equal honing on both sides. With razors, we use a pull stroke to remove a burr when a razor has been overhoned. The idea is to not get the burr in the first place, but to set the bevel, using push strokes, and then work up the stone grits, keeping the bevel the same angles for optimum shaving.
A spine leading pull stroke is used when stropping on pastes to touch up the edge, or when doing daily stropping on canvas/leather to re-align the razors teeth before a shave and after the shave (it also helps after to remove the residue of cream, gunk, etc, from the blade).
Hope this helps,
Maxi
I have never seen anyone use trailing stroke when sharpening knives. The usual motion is back and forth at ~45* to the stone with most pressure applied on the pull stroke which is edge leading stroke. Trailing stroke makes keeping consistent angles difficult, usually that type of stroke is used when stropping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly
When honing razors you always lead with the edge, I have never seen anyonehone a knife with the spine leading either, especially since knives are usually honed with the spine lifted off the stone since the bevel is usually steep.
Some people DO hone with the spine leading as a very light final touch on a finishing stone, maybe 3-5 laps. I have tried this and didn't see anything benefit, I didn't see the point. That is more like pre-stropping on a stone than honing, imo, with a razor.
Circles and X strokes seem to be the most effective IME. As Nick (Disburden) said, the spine leading back stroke is practiced by some as a light finishing stroke but not as a regular method of honing throughout the process. OTOH, if it seems to work for you let us know. No rules really, just whatever works. :)
A knife sharpening vid I saw used spine-leading strokes as the final laps on a stone - and they were referred to a 'stropping' strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
that us not how you put an edge on a knife.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinklather
Here a very good one that shows exactly how it is done.
YouTube - How to Sharpen a Knife
Mainaman,
I'm sorry, but that video is about as useful as a handkerchief in a wetsuit.
Maybe if you had one knife you could lavish attention on you could use that technique, but you can't do that when you're going through your knife roll. I'll sharpen 4 to 8 knives each week and I'm not going to spend half an hour on each one.
A half an hour to sharpen one knife is too long of a period of time? I don't sharpen knives, I am just wondering...
Razors may take more time than that, just letting you know, so when you get into the hobby more and have several razors to hone or more that may be even more time consuming than a half hour. I know some people that need to remove a lot of steel to restore an edge on a razor, it can take over an hour to remove the steel and set a bevel correctly.
As far as the video is concerned I think you are missing he point here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly
When using circles as strokes you would employ both edge trailing and edge leading motion.
The regular x-stroke is just as effective, I have never seen any discussion on trailing vs leading stroke, but I'll guess the edge leading stroke works a lot better.
In the end sharpening knives and razors is two very different things, razor edges are a lot more delicate and require more control to get best final results. IMO edge leading stroke allows for that level of control.
It's pretty well documented that razors have been honed that way for at least 200 years.
I can't explain why it's done that way, but it isn't anything that's unique to this forum or the people on it.
When you sharpen razors you lead with the edge.
When sharpening knives, I would always finish my use of a particular stone with several light, slow trailing strokes to feather the edge and remove any burrs from overhoning. This was because I would use a good deal of pressure when doing the cutting strokes that would sometimes lead to a wire edge. I would also sharpen on oil stones exclusively with a trailing stroke, never a cutting stroke.
However, as to the actual physical benefits: I have no explanation. That's simply the way my Pappy taught me. Literally, "Different strokes for different folks."
Sorry, I should clarify a bit. I am a chef so sharpening my knives is a weekly chore, just getting the edge back to where I think it should be. Every now and again I'll have to re-set a bevel and spend an hour on that. I progress through four stones on each knifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
If I get a new knife I'll probably spend an hour or hour and a half setting a bevel and getting the knife sharp according to my lights, but that isn't a regular weekly thing.
Spending time on the razors isn't a problem, just the technique in that video is just too slow for practical use outside of OCD hobbyists. I'm happy to be an OCD hobbyist when it comes to my razors, but not my work equipment.
You're damn right I missed the point. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Abrasive particles are not fussy and will cut metal in any direction. I select a stroke depending on what gives me the best angle control. For knives, push and trailing strokes are the same, but I can remove metal faster with a push stroke. Chisels and plane irons get a trailing stroke or side-to-side stroke. Small chisels and carving tools get a side-side stroke. Axes get a push stroke going in the direction of the edge with a file. I use a push stroke on razors because that's what everyone else does and I've never thought about it before.
Sometimes the abrasive medium dictates the stroke. Trailing strokes are used on pasted strops, sandpaper, belt grinders and lapping film so you don't cut the material holding the abrasive.
As for the length of time required to sharpen a knife, you need to establish bevels and polish them to the desired level. The time depends on the type of steel and type of abrasive used. I sharpen lots of knives and don't see any point in spending hours honing with fine, soft abrasives. When dealing with neglected knives, I use a 120 grit silicon carbide stone, belt grinder or bench grinder to rapidly establish the desired bevel, and then polish with 1k, 4k, 8k stones. When dealing with well-maintained tools, setting the bevel with a 1k stone is plenty fast and conserves steel. A sharp edge is the intersection of two polished surfaces. In my opinion, it doesn't matter how you get there.
Pauly, check your PM (Personal Reply)