To tape or not to tape, that is the question.

This is not a new question, has been discussed quite a bit elsewhere, but I cannot find a resolution to it that works for me. I understand the variable effects that taping the spine will have on the bevel and further finishing, but:

I tape to preserve the pristine appearance of the spine. I have a few really nice razors that I am just not going to chew up on a 1K Norton. So I tape. I know there are knowledgeable members here (Hi Bud!) who don't like taping, presumably because it complicates honing. It's also a PITA because the tape must be replaced, and I'm almost through my first roll of tape.

So, is there a compromise here? At what level grit does honing not affect the spine? I'm concerned about spine wear, of course, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist about how the razor looks, and I don't want the appearance of a new razor to be degraded by my honing. Do people just not care about this? Honemeisters will tape a spine for customers. Why can't I do it for my own razors?

I taped my first year because I was afraid of spine wear. I know of more than one honemeister who tapes all razors. I know of more than one who only tape damascus or decorated spines. Also those that are specifically requested by the customer.

Personally after a year of honing I began to experiment with not using tape. I meaured the spine of a NOS full hollow Solingen with a micrometer. Set the bevel and honed it up to shave ready. Measured the spine after the honing and there was no appreciable difference in the before and after measurement.

So for the last couple of years I only use tape for certain applications and TBH I hate honing with tape. AFAIC it is a PITA. I also think that by honing properly without tape a geometric relationship is developed between the spine and edge that cannot happen if the spine is taped. Just IMHO. YMMV.

I guess you need to decide for yourself whether the hassle is worth the preservation of the spine's look. Even an abrasive-laden strop will change the look of the spine, so I think this is probably going to be your own preference rather than a cut and dry answer

It really doesn't matter at what level the tape doesn't affect the spine wear.

Once you have a bevel, the angle is set. If it was set with tape, then removing the tape would leave you wearing down the previously established bevel (meaning you aren't improving the shaving edge at all).

Adding a layer of tape is something that some guys do, but you can't really get away with working it the other way around...

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I taped my first year because I was afraid of spine wear. I know of more than one honemeister who tapes all razors. I know of more than one who only tape damascus or decorated spines. Also those that are specifically requested by the customer.

Personally after a year of honing I began to experiment with not using tape. I meaured the spine of a NOS full hollow Solingen with a micrometer. Set the bevel and honed it up to shave ready. Measured the spine after the honing and there was no appreciable difference in the before and after measurement.

So for the last couple of years I only use tape for certain applications and TBH I hate honing with tape. AFAIC it is a PITA. I also think that by honing properly without tape a geometric relationship is developed between the spine and edge that cannot happen if the spine is taped. Just IMHO. YMMV.

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Thanks for the reply. I could live with spine wear within limits. After all, as the spine slowly wears and the blade continues to be honed, the bevel and the spine continue their angular relationship. I'm more concerned about the "appearance" of wear. If I could be assured that honing leaves the spine "appearing" nearly as new, I could live with that and live with the eventual wear as well. Does the honing up through 4K, 8K, and 12K and on to stropping also "finish" the spine and make it look nearly as new? I respect the issue of taping and resulting angle changes, but I am more concerned about the near-new look of the spine. Thanks for any and all comments.

I would suggest honing with tape in the beginning. Once you feel confident in your skill level experiment with razors that you are not that concerned about causing any undue wear. There will be a certain amount of wear and it also depends on how many razors you have. I have such a large rotation that I don't hone the same razor often. For a person with one or two it might be different.

Taping cannot hurt. Not taping can wear the spine.

It was pretty simple for me.:beer2:

Make a choice and deal with it...

I can only state all the various reasons over and over so many times...

I am one who tapes every single razor Yours, Mine, and Theirs.. I am very very conscious of changing the tape at every level of honing...
I started taping because, I started restoring razors and I will be d*mned if I am going to spend all that time polishing out a blade to a near perfect finish, then put hone wear on it, so I tape...

Now on the reverse side of that I have yet to have a razor come in for honing or restore that has been harmed from tape (maybe 100 years from now I will) but I sure have fixed a truck load that have been harmed from hone wear on the spine :D :D

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I will be d*mned if I am going to spend all that time polishing out a blade to a near perfect finish, then put hone wear on it

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It's a wonder that you go on to hone them at all, scratching up those innocent, newly mirrored bevels with all manner of hones and strops :rolleyes:

I knew that Glen and Randy both tape them all and I did too. I probably would have been comfortable doing that forever. It is certainly easier than trying remember which were taped if you don't tape them all.

The fact that Lynn didn't use tape gnawed at me. I figured there must be some advantage or he would have. So I experimented without it. Like Lynn I will still tape a damascus, a decorated spine or per customer's request but the feel of honing without it is so much nicer IME not to mention a lot less hassle. Different strokes and all roads lead to Rome ... figuratively speaking. :)

I don't understand why taping would be considered a PITA? How hard can it really be?

"Make a choice and deal with it..."

Fair enough! Now, where's my tape?

I go both ways depending on how the razor was honed before.
On restored razors i always use tape. It is just question of choice and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

I don't understand why taping would be considered a PITA? How hard can it really be?

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Until you don't do it you won't know what a pain it is when you have to. :)

I tape what I have not initially set. Works every time....for me! :)

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Originally Posted by Bladerunner

I tape what I have not initially set. Works every time....for me! :)

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Like I said, different strokes for different folks. :beer1:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Make a choice and deal with it...

I can only state all the various reasons over and over so many times...

I am one who tapes every single razor Yours, Mine, and Theirs.. I am very very conscious of changing the tape at every level of honing...
I started taping because, I started restoring razors and I will be d*mned if I am going to spend all that time polishing out a blade to a near perfect finish, then put hone wear on it, so I tape...

Now on the reverse side of that I have yet to have a razor come in for honing or restore that has been harmed from tape (maybe 100 years from now I will) but I sure have fixed a truck load that have been harmed from hone wear on the spine :D :D

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And your customers greatly appreciate it, Glen. I'll only send my very few really nice blades out to someone that does tape the spine, as I really don't want any hone wear on the spines of my few good blades. I have dozens of "practice" razors, and I don't care if they get worn spines or not, but on my good ones... I'll pass on the hone worn spines, thanks.

I sent my NOS Hess 44 RP out to a guy once that didn't tape the spine. Not only did it come back with hone wear, but the back of the spine had numerous scratches on it from flipping the blade on the surface of the hone. I spent several hours polishing out the scratches on the back of the spine.

Personally, I like to tape the spine. In addition to protecting the spine from hone wear, it gives the blade a bit of additional stability on the hone, IMO. I have yet to notice any decrease in keeness of blades sharpened with tape, or without. And I challenge anyone to get a blade sharper than Glen does, and he tapes every blade. Not only are his blades sharp, but they're very smoooooth.

IMO, it's just personal choice, with no real right or wrong answer. You don't mind the hone wear, then go without. No biggy.

I strongly concur with Jimmy. In the beginning tape is pretty helpful.

I think the POA comes into play with re-honing. On with the tape every time.

I'm also a pretty big advocate of using tape if you have extensive amounts of honing to accomplish. Beginner or not.

A pro like Glen will tape a razor and others will appreciate it as noted in the thread. That makes perfect sense to me too.

I always tape a razors edge when I begin to suspect spine wear complications because it quickly and easily both diagnoses and solves the problem instantly.

I personally don't look that close at my razors that I would know or care if they had a few scratches somewhere. To me it's like cylinder drag on a revolver. It's wear, but it's wear that is supposed to be there. Ya know? To me that's like worrying about the wrinkles I put in my ties.

But, it makes perfect sense that someone who purchases an expenses vintage blade might not want scratches in the their blades.

One of the big reasons we have developed a push against tape is that guys buy razors honed by professionals and the big benefit is that the bevels are set really well and require an easy "touch up" honing. There was a time, back in the day, when people would have trouble re-touching the blade, mostly because they didn't realize that it had been taped. Sometimes, but not often, they would know it was taped but either not know what kind or what thickness the tape was. They had more difficulty touching up because they needed more strokes than would have ever made sense to accomplish (if they were honing without tape).

So, again, tape has it's purpose and it's moments when EVERYONE should use it. It also has some detractors that don't do it or don't like it. Hell, I probably won't ever date another blond again, but that doesn't mean all men should shoot for brunettes.

All of the tools and techniques we use are useful. All the tests are useful. Some of us like tools, techniques, and tests. Some of us have biases, strong and weak. Either way what is important is to weigh the arguments based on what you want to accomplish. If you want to hone a razor and not scratch the spine, you'd better use (and purchase) a lot of tape. Anything wrong with that? Absolutely not. You wanna do 1000 strokes on 200 grit? You better add some tape if you want more than a toothpick left.

But, if you are doing some light honing, don't really care too much about spine wear, and certainly don't want to do anything outside of traditional razor use. Don't sweat the tape.

I would imagine if you do honing as a business the last thing you want is someone complaining about their pristine custom razor which now has hone wear and is ruined now. In that case yes taping is the way to go. Personally the only time I tape is to preserve ornate spines and also my Zowada's.

Way to much thought, and effort in here, as usual LOL

Tape if ya want, don't tape if ya want, it really is that simple...

Lynn doesn't tape, Max and I do, I don't know really what all the other guys that hone and restore do, but I really think it is a personal choice....

I used to have a whole list of pluses that I used to post every single time this topic came up, but now I just figure each person can do or ask for what they want done... And I do have a few customers that specifically ask for "no tape", that is their choice, and it makes not one bit of difference to me when I am honing...

To Tape or not to Tape is not the question, it is but a simple decision :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: see I is a poet and don't know it,


BTW This is the top portion of the letter I send home with the razor...

How your razor was honed

I have started to include this letter with all my razors….
Unless otherwise requested all razors are taped with one layer of 3M #700 electrical tape while on the stones…. Yes I know there are 2 opposite camps on this, but they are not my razors, and I am not going to scratch them up….

They do not need to be taped on any kind of strop, only if you go back to a hone….and even then about 20 laps will erase the taped bevel on a 4k hone…

Yep way too much thought. I will and I won't. It just depends.

Oh, you guys are funny. Probably shave by using good Karma.

I used to tape all the time, but quit because I am lazy and I would always forget to tape when I touched up the razor.

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Originally Posted by ace

"Make a choice and deal with it..."

Fair enough! Now, where's my tape?

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Dude, you are killin me!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Way to much thought, and effort in here, as usual LOL

Tape if ya want, don't tape if ya want, it really is that simple...

Lynn doesn't tape, Max and I do, I don't know really what all the other guys that hone and restore do, but I really think it is a personal choice....

I used to have a whole list of pluses that I used to post every single time this topic came up, but now I just figure each person can do or ask for what they want done... And I do have a few customers that specifically ask for "no tape", that is their choice, and it makes not one bit of difference to me when I am honing...

To Tape or not to Tape is not the question, it is but a simple decision :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: see I is a poet and don't know it,


BTW This is the top portion of the letter I send home with the razor...

How your razor was honed

I have started to include this letter with all my razors….
Unless otherwise requested all razors are taped with one layer of 3M #700 electrical tape while on the stones…. Yes I know there are 2 opposite camps on this, but they are not my razors, and I am not going to scratch them up….

They do not need to be taped on any kind of strop, only if you go back to a hone….and even then about 20 laps will erase the taped bevel on a 4k hone…

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Does that mean I shouldn't start a thread on which kind of tape is the best one to use? ;)

This subject has been so beat up over the years, that I am astounded anyone would yet start another thread on it. I may not be able to get a razor as sharp and smooth as Glen, but the amount of hone wear I put on one is virtually negligible. Most of the real hone wear that I see on razors comes from new honesters who spend way too much time on the hones or on one that has been on a wheel or belt or simply abused over the years.

In my opinion taping is purely a personal preference, but it can cause just as much problem as not on a razor with a flattened and uneven spine which may or may not be the same on both sides. With tape you still have all that uneven wear showing on the bevel uless you use multiple layers or huge rolling X strokes.

I do agree with taping Damascus razors or spine or razors that need a lot of steel taken off the edge for repairs, but this is my personal preference. All I can say is that I have honed and hone more than most and don't see the need.

Have fun,

Lynn

For those who are not getting enough 'action' in this thread, do an advanced search with the keywords, "tape the spine" ( with quotation marks) in the honing forum and you will have 20 pages going back to 2006. :popcorn:

Shaaazaaam!

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

For those who are not getting enough 'action' in this thread, do an advanced search with the keywords, "tape the spine" ( with quotation marks) in the honing forum and you will have 20 pages going back to 2006. :popcorn:

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Shaaazaaam!

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583 results on a google search for "tape spine site:straightrazorplace.com" :gaah: Right on Ben !!! :rock:

Well, I've finally made it onto Google. I've got that going for me now!

Glen pretty much said everything that needs to be said, but I'll throw in my 2 cents on the issue.

It isn't rocket science here guys- there is no one correct way to hone ANY razor. I tape every single razor I hone. Why? Because I want to. I don't like the appearance of hone wear. Simple as that. I do however know how to hone a razor successfully both with or without tape. Make a choice and stick to it- it doesn't matter what other people do. The only thing that complicates the issue is when you only tape some razors but not all- and that will only be complicated if you can't remember which is which. Again, it isn't rocket science.

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

Glen pretty much said everything that needs to be said, but I'll throw in my 2 cents on the issue.

It isn't rocket science here guys- there is no one correct way to hone ANY razor. I tape every single razor I hone. Why? Because I want to. I don't like the appearance of hone wear. Simple as that. I do however know how to hone a razor successfully both with or without tape. Make a choice and stick to it- it doesn't matter what other people do. The only thing that complicates the issue is when you only tape some razors but not all- and that will only be complicated if you can't remember which is which. Again, it isn't rocket science.

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What he said!

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I always tape a razors edge when I begin to suspect spine wear complications because it quickly and easily both diagnoses and solves the problem instantly.

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Say more, please?

I thought I would post here since it has to do with taping or not.

I finally was able to get a good shaving edge off my two razors. One is a Dovo Special 6/8 and a Filarmonica 12 Doble Temple 4/8. The Dovo was bought new about a year ago and the edge finally crapped out about three months ago. I bought a coticle and a 600 grit DMT and began to try to restore the edge using tape on the spine. The choice of the DMT is questionable in hindsight. I didn't have the best results until I watched Glen's "one stone honing " vid and started to change the tape more often and lightened way up on the pressure.

My problem is this; With my Dovo, on one side the spine and edge are in perfect relationship to each other, that is to say when marked the marking comes off evenly after one pass down the stone. The other side however, leaves the marking on the toe going back towards the heel about 5/16". I tried "pushing the edge" out at the toe but it never cured the problem. I finally started to rock the blade towards the toe as I swept the razor down the stone and eventually I got a good shaving edge.

Here's my question. Should I send my razor to a pro to get this problem squared away? I'm not too sure that with the tape on the spine I can resolve the relationship between the spine and the edge. With tape off I'm afraid that I'll trash my razor trying to "fix" it.

The Filly was troublesome in that it has a smiling edge but a heel to toe rocking/ sweeping motion got it sharp once I started to change the tape more often and lightened my stroke.

Thanx

Rob.

Rob, I would just use the rocking motion you described. Easiest way to solve the problem and won't require a lot of metal removal on the spine to even out the one side of the Dovo. Even if it could be done. That is where the 'rolling x' came to be as described in the SRP Wiki honing section.

Awww. If honing was easy it wouldn't be as much fun!:beer1: