Even bevel, uneven edge?

Hey fellas, I have a vintage F Herder razor that I'm trying to set the bevel on. This razor was absolutely virgin-- no sign of a bevel ever being set. Anyway, the spike point had been ever so slightly chipped off, so I worked it out doing circles with two layers of tape on my DMT E. Next, I went to one layer of tape, circles again until the bevel was perfectly even.

The problem is now I've done hundreds of light X strokes, but during the TNT the heel and toe ends feel perfect, but the middle third of the edge just skates right over the nail. When held up to the light, the bevel is still even the entire length of the blade.

What's going on? Should I just keep on with the X strokes?

Thanks.

It's not clear whether you used two layers of tape just to get rid of the chip or to work your first bevel. If the latter, then going to one layer may mean that you are working now high on the bevel and not low where the edge is.

Another possibility is that your X-strokes are not flat on the stone and you are therefore working the heel and toe more than the middle. You might return to two layers of tape for the X-strokes and see if that helps. Is there any gleam showing under lighting on the edge? If so, you haven't extended the bevel down to the edge, essentially they are not meeting to form an edge.

There are other possibilities, and those here with more experience than I will soon join in. Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chay2K

Hey fellas, I have a vintage F Herder razor that I'm trying to set the bevel on. This razor was absolutely virgin-- no sign of a bevel ever being set. Anyway, the spike point had been ever so slightly chipped off, so I worked it out doing circles with two layers of tape on my DMT E. Next, I went to one layer of tape, circles again until the bevel was perfectly even.

The problem is now I've done hundreds of light X strokes, but during the TNT the heel and toe ends feel perfect, but the middle third of the edge just skates right over the nail. When held up to the light, the bevel is still even the entire length of the blade.

What's going on? Should I just keep on with the X strokes?

Thanks.

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It is hard to tell from a keyboard.

You worked it over on a DMT E so it should be good to go at that grit
unless you applied pressure and the flex of the blade confused things.
Use a minimum of pressure with a DMT. Diamond does not need
pressure to cut well.

Next thing we do not know is what you are following the DMT E with
and also I am not sure if your DMT is Extra coarse or Extra fine.

I would give the razor a light visit with a black magic marker and
let that dry for 15 min. Then give the razor two strokes on the
hone that you have been using for all your X strokes. Then inspect
to verify that the magic marker is removed at the bevel all the way
to the edge. Remember to mark both the edge and the spine.
That will tell us what the next step is.

While I do not recommend it, I have found that a well worn Coarse DMT
will set a nice bevel and then following that with minimum honing on a
Carborundum 101 barber hone will result in a tolerable shave as long as
the pair has the same flat surface profile (flat is good). It did not
take a lot of time on better hones to go from tolerable to enjoyable
and smooth.

So tell us more...

EDIT:
If you are scanning old postings note that DMT had also added an “Extra-Extra Fine” diamond
hone to their line A DMT-E (GREEN EXTRA FINE) is about 9 micron, 1200 mesh. This
needs to be followed by a 3 or 4K hone and about an 8K hone to get a shave worthy edge.
Some folk will go to a 10K or 12K hone before stropping. The DMT new 3 micron / 8000 grit D8EE
is reported to result in a harsh edge that still needs to be followed by a water stone.

Hey fellas, thanks for the quick responses. First, I'm using the extra fine DMT, and planning on moving to my BBW then the coticule after I get this bevel figured out. Second, I reset the bevel after moving down to one layer of tape, and still have one layer on for the X strokes.

I was trying to use light pressure, but who knows, I got pretty tense-- might have gotten a little heavy handed, possibly.

The marker is on the blade drying. I'm taking SWMBO out to dinner for her birthday now, so I'll try it when I get back. Thanks.

Take tape off please and set the bevel on 1k move forward.
Please don't worry about spine wear it is even or not as long as you have set the bevel.
if your bevel is not even don't worry about .smaller in the tip side and wider in the middle etc.
just have the cutting edge.
Now it may look not great but your blade will shave how it should be.
There is not perfect blades out there .
Every single of the blade will have small problems.
hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

You worked it over on a DMT E so it should be good to go at that grit
unless you applied pressure and the flex of the blade confused things.
Use a minimum of pressure with a DMT. Diamond does not need
pressure to cut well.

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Good points. Altho your bevel seems even the 2 sides may not meet optimally if the edge has been flexed away from the hones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Take tape off please and set the bevel on 1k move forward.
Please don't worry about spine wear it is even or not as long as you have set the bevel.
if your bevel is not even don't worry about .smaller in the tip side and wider in the middle etc.
just have the cutting edge.
Now it may look not great but your blade will shave how it should be.
There is not perfect blades out there .
Every single of the blade will have small problems.
hope this helps.

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That's excellent advise. I used to tape spines when I honed nice razors but to be honest, it creates more problems than it's worth. You are much better off putting up with a little bit of hone wear and having a razor that has an even bevel and shaves the way it was meant to. Straights weren't designed to be honed with tape.

Go back to the 1k and do circle strokes all the way down the hone and flip, follow these laps with x strokes watching the water on the blade. This method should help you set a full bevel down the whole edge. If you need one part of the edge is not hitting the hone, like in the middle, put your finger on that part of the edge while stroking through the water and you should see better contact on the stone. Do not use pressure in any heavy sense while doing this, just the weight of your finger on the blade.

Ii would then make x strokes and the bevel should cut hair all the way down the bevel on your arm, do not using a slicing motion when trying to arm your arm just touch the hair straight to the edge.

Sorry, but I have to say don't listen to anyone who tells you not to use tape. If they have had trouble with tape, it's their problem, not yours. I have never had an issue with using tape and now use it on every razor. Your experience can be a different one from theirs. There is no one way to correctly hone any given razor. What may complicate things is using varying layers of tape. I personally would just stay with one piece on the spine, replacing it whenever it gets too worn.

Your bevel is just not set in the center yet, keep going. The razor, being factory made, may not be perfectly even along the edge (both in terms of "flatness" and grind). Just keep at it until the whole bevel is set and you'll be good.