New hone question

:deadhorse: <---

So I still just have my first razor (Dovo) that is in shaving condition and I've been using it every day for a little over a month. It still shaves fine but I think just because it was the razor I learned with it may be going dull a little quicker than if I were an experienced user.

That being said, I'm also hoping to learn to hone. I've done my research on hones and technique but I have a specific question that I need to ask although I'm sure it has been answered before.

Since the razor is in great condition and still has a keen edge, can I simply use a very high grit stone (10-12K) to get the edge back once it begins to "dull" or will I need to do some sort of stone progression. I ask this because mainly when I look at honing it is related to some sort of restore and not always applied to a blade in workable condition.

Of course if I were restoring something I would likely need multiple stones but looking to get started, and using a new blade, would it be sufficient to get a nice natural stone or a 12K naniwa, shapton, etc.? (I know it is also a point of preference but I used these stones just as an example)

In answer to your question..yes..you can use the higher grit stone to refresh your allready shavable edge. But there will come a time that you'll need to go further because that refreshing just wont cut it anymore. This is just my opinion, but a coti is a great option, if given the time it can be used as a one and only stone..I've used mine as such and it worked very well..I just use my other hones to play with and experiment :)

+1. I do really enjoy my coti.

If cost is a major concern, you can check the classifieds for a Barber Hone. They're great for a quick touch up here and there, but again, as Catrent mentioned, there will be a time when you'll need to delve deeper and remove more steel.

I began with a Norton 4/8k combo, which I found to be a good option for sharpening, as well as polishing on the 8 side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catrentshaving

In answer to your question..yes..you can use the higher grit stone to refresh your allready shavable edge. But there will come a time that you'll need to go further because that refreshing just wont cut it anymore.

---

With all due respect , I must disagree with this statement . As long as you touch up your edge when it's needed , and don't wait until the shave it's giving you is terrible . You only need a high grit finishing hone , in the 8k-16k range .

You can also purchase a cheap straight on the classifieds here to practice your honing skills before you attempt to hone your primary shaver. If you make a mistake on the cheapie you won't feel too badly if it doesn't go right. In my opinion.

Thank you all for the advice!

I think for now I just want to get a stone to refinish my razor, I'll eventually get around to buying lower grits but as for now it isn't that important.

Thankfully, I do have a couple old ebay razors on which to practice so I won't ruin my new Dovo. Maybe if I practice enough they'll be shave ready too :)

Just get a barber hone. They're cheap and they'll keep you a long long time before you have to send the razor out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave5225

With all due respect , I must disagree with this statement . As long as you touch up your edge when it's needed , and don't wait until the shave it's giving you is terrible . You only need a high grit finishing hone , in the 8k-16k range .

---

+1 ...Most high grit finishers are very fast cutters & perfectly capable of maintaining your razor a loooong time.

I was thinking of a Naniwa 12k or Shapton (12 or 16)K to start.

Are these fast cutters that can keep me going? I get the idea that they're top of the line as far as new stones go.

There's also a good deal on SRD that has a naniwa 5, 8, and 12K but that's a bit above what I wanted to spend, even though it comes with more stones.

Either 12 or 16 would do it, personally the Shapton sweet 16.

I would target more in the 8k- 10k range more of a polisher rather than a finisher.... IME you can do way more with it, given Time, Experience, and a way to make a slurry I can sharpen quite a range of edges on a 8k (range) stone/hone of any kind...

We have this trend here to think that unless you are above 8k the shave isn't smooth,and that if you want only one stone it has to be a Coticule,and both just are not true...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave5225

With all due respect , I must disagree with this statement . As long as you touch up your edge when it's needed , and don't wait until the shave it's giving you is terrible . You only need a high grit finishing hone , in the 8k-16k range .

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by onimaru55

+1 ...Most high grit finishers are very fast cutters & perfectly capable of maintaining your razor a loooong time.

---

Not trying to argue here...but by that logic then all a person should ever need is a high grit or barbers hone? Why would a barber eventully have to go down to a lower grit hone then? :shrug:

I can tell you this, for a while, a year or so, I would hit each razor in rotation with 3 lapps on a Swaty, like a pm...(Preventative Maintenance) They remained shave ready for year. The only reason I stopped was because I missed honing, really. (Yes, I realize 3 lapps on a Swaty is honing, but you know what I mean....)

With that being said, You can get The Norton combo pack at Sharpening Supplies.
They sell a 220/1k, 4/8k and the lapping plate, You get that and add a finisher of your choice, even a Chinese 12k. The C12k is a great hone, they're natural, so some are better than others. You get those, and you'll never need anything else. If your going to stay in this hobby and buy razors it makes sense to have these....

I agree with ZIB completely, good advice, but just for now, you can pick up a Swaty hone on E-bay for about $20 tp $30 and if the seller say's he laped it for you your ahead of the game, then start saving up 'yer schillings or whatever currency you use and but the outfit[rig] of your choice, ZIB's suggestion is a really good outfit. IMHO.

tinkersd of SRP, one more time.

Honestly, just get whichever appeals to you. It really doesn't matter all that much...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catrentshaving

Not trying to argue here...but by that logic then all a person should ever need is a high grit or barbers hone? Why would a barber eventully have to go down to a lower grit hone then? :shrug:

---

That's about right as I see it. SRP member Utopian has maintained a set of razors for 7 or 8 years with just a barber hone, IIRC.

A lower grit would of course be needed in cases of damage.

You guys are going to hate this, but I have been playing around with creating a heavy slurry on a couple of my barber hones and then working to medium slurry and the light slurry to water. Guess what........you can actually do some honing with these guys. The size makes for a few more circles and I am not to a point of great consistency yet, but it do has some possibilities........

Some of you HAD gentleman's should play around with this for some grins.

The first one I tried it on was my Swaty as it is a little longer than the rest of mine, but strange as it may seem, it actually worked. I shaved off it and it was pretty good. I just used that little generic Nagura, but would love to try it with the 3 Japanese Naguras. I put the barber hones on a couple of bench biscuits as they are so small and I wanted to start off with some pressure with the thick slurry. It is weird for me to use the little stones for a full honing regiment, but it can be done.

Have fun,

Lynn

OK Lynn, I am going to have to try this for grins, since I dont have a Nagura I will probably use an Escher. Thanks for the idea!

I always used the synthetic Nagura on my Kings from 800 - 8k & have tried it on J-nats & the ubiquitous C12k. It seems to increase the cutting ability of any stone you use it on.

Lynn drops a grenade in the imagination - very cool.

Nun2sharp mentioned using an escher slurry stone. I imagine a coti slurry would work also. Any other candidates for a slurry stone? I would think it needs to be of the donor variety of slurry stone, rather than one intended to raise slurry only by abrading the main stone.

I've used a ruby stone (synth ruby) to raise slurry on the c12k, but that just abrades the c12k.

'Sounds like several have posted about the hone as a platform for other abrasion media. Spyderco with diamond spray, c12k w/ slurry from other rocks, etc. So not every experiment will yield nuggets, but it's very cool to press for the discoveries.

Onimaru, is there a grit range for the synthetic nagura you would recommend?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pinklather

Lynn drops a grenade in the imagination - very cool.

Nun2sharp mentioned using an escher slurry stone. I imagine a coti slurry would work also. Any other candidates for a slurry stone? I would think it needs to be of the donor variety of slurry stone, rather than one intended to raise slurry only by abrading the main stone.

I've used a ruby stone (synth ruby) to raise slurry on the c12k, but that just abrades the c12k.

'Sounds like several have posted about the hone as a platform for other abrasion media. Spyderco with diamond spray, c12k w/ slurry from other rocks, etc. So not every experiment will yield nuggets, but it's very cool to press for the discoveries.

Onimaru, is there a grit range for the synthetic nagura you would recommend?

---

This is very doable and a pretty inexpensive solution. It may not be the most consistent method, but it is not too bad. It would be cool if you guys who give it a try, report your findings in another thread. There are lots of alternatives out there guys.

Have fun,

Lynn

Does anyone know if the Norton prep stone is the same as the generic Nagura...?

Of course not the Norton one says Norton on the side :roflmao:


seriously I buy whichever is less $$ and always have...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pinklather

Onimaru, is there a grit range for the synthetic nagura you would recommend?

---

I think my mate gssixgun summed it up best. Cheapest is best :D

But seriously, there are a few different synthetic Nagura depending on how you acquire them . There is the basic King one that comes with their 8k stone pictured. I have no idea as to its grit. This is the one I have mostly used & can be bought separately.
Then there are the Nagura that are supplied with other brands & some may be quite hard or coarse for resurfacing purposes rather than slurry making. I have one that came with a Kasumi 220/1k that looks about 80 grit hehe. Never used the Norton one as it's too expensive in the land of Oz :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Of course not the Norton one says Norton on the side :roflmao:


seriously I buy whichever is less $$ and always have...

---

Your a funny guy Mr. Six Gun....

two more quick questions:

Do all stones need a slurry stone? On SRD it mentions many just need a coat of water and you're good to go but occasionally I see some of you talking about using slurry on those same stones. Is a nagura a slurry stone?

Also, regardless of what I decide to buy I assume I'll need a flattening or lapping stone. I think this may have been asked already do I need a specific grit range or would I be safe with a 220 grit (for sale on SRD) with pretty much any stone I buy; for example a shapton 12 or 16K.

Thanks for the great responses so far. I'd like to try Lynn's idea but I'm not sure that would be the best idea when just getting started.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ats200

two more quick questions:

Do all stones need a slurry stone? On SRD it mentions many just need a coat of water and you're good to go but occasionally I see some of you talking about using slurry on those same stones. Is a nagura a slurry stone?

Also, regardless of what I decide to buy I assume I'll need a flattening or lapping stone. I think this may have been asked already but I'm not exactly sure what Nagura is so in that case, do I need a specific grit range or would I be safe with a 220 grit (for sale on SRD) with pretty much any stone I buy; for example a shapton 12 or 16K.

Thanks for the great responses so far. I'd like to try Lynn's idea but I'm not sure that would be the best idea when just getting started.

---

This is a pretty big area of personal preference. I normally only use water with Naniwa, Shapton and Norton on my daily honings and usually when I finish on my Natural Stones these days, I only use water as well. Some people like a little slurry and obviously you need it with one stone honing on Naturals, but it's a fun area to play around with to see what you prefer.

Have fun,

Lynn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ats200

Is a nagura a slurry stone?

Also, regardless of what I decide to buy I assume I'll need a flattening or lapping stone. I think this may have been asked already do I need a specific grit range or would I be safe with a 220 grit (for sale on SRD) with pretty much any stone I buy; for example a shapton 12 or 16K.

---

In general ,yes Nagura are for slurry making & can be bought with varying abrasive qualities. Didn't wanna say 'grit' ranges :)

If you get a diamond plate, like a DMT C, You can use it for flattening as well as creating a slurry from the stone you use it on. If you get a flattening 'stone' you are limited to just flattening or lappping.