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I am trying to hone a razor to shave ready. I've already tried a few times unsuccessfully. It seems to shave decent in the middle, but not at the toe and heel. I noticed on one side of the blade the bevel area is bit thicker at the toe and heal. And on the other side the bevel is thicker in the middle, and much thinner at the toe and heel. Is this normal? Is the blade slightly bowed in the middle?
Yes it is possible that the blade is warped. This would cause what you are describing. It also is possible that your strokes in each direction are uneven and that also could be the problem.
Bevel width can and does vary. The key is to have SOME SORT of bevel along the full length of the edge. All that matters is that you convert the full length of the edge from a "U" to a "V" regardless of the width of the bevel.
Okay thanks. I'll focus on keeping my strokes even and keep honing until it shaves decently across the whole edge.
I hesitate to say this to a beginner who is trying to keep the blade flat on the hone, but read up on the rolling X stroke in the Wiki.
I would ask the following questions:
1. What condition was the blade in that it requires honing (antique store find, new, shave ready but pulling, etc)?
2. Are you placing any fingers on the blade to keep it flat on the hone? (I'm not recommending this, but it is a common cause of an uneven bevel)
3. What tests are you using along the way to determine that you have established a bevel along the entire edge?
4. Are you using pressure?
Condition
The razor is a new Dovo I bought from a cutlery store a few years ago. It didn't shaved well so I figured I learn to hone with it. If I remember correctly it felt like it was ripping the hairs out when I shaved.
Fingers on the blade
Yes, I am using a finger on the blade to keep it flat (like TokIk's video). Yesterday I tried without a finger on the blade (like Lynn's video) and I couldn't keep it flat on the away stroke.
Tests
I've been testing it on my arm to see if it shaves the hair at different spots along the blade. I try the TPT every one in awhile, but I'm still getting used to that. It makes me nervous that I'm going to slice my thumb open. Other than that I look at the reflection in the light. Maybe I should run to radio shack and get a microscope?
Pressure
I'm trying not to use pressure, but I'm pretty sure I'm putting some on there.
Ok, this means that you will need to set a proper bevel (I would recommend a 1k for this).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan79
This is likely the reason you are getting the middle sharp and not the heel and toe. I would guess that your finger is in the middle of the blade. This will cause extra pressure to be placed there and eventually lead to a frown developing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan79
If you don't have a way that you are using to tell you that the bevel is set along the entire length of the blade, you will continue to have problems. Getting a little RS microscope is an option and is helpful for looking at the bevel, but it doesn't substitute over the Thumb nail and thumb pad test (though seeing it and then feeling it will help). The Thumb nail test is used during bevel setting and the thumb pad test is used from there on. Be sure to check the entire length of the blade and don't move on until you have positive results over the entire length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan79
It's very easy to put pressure when it is not intended. Are you using circles or X-strokes? I've found circles to be easier and faster for bevel setting. GSSixgun recently did some videos on using 1 stone after bevel setting with circles and x's that may help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan79
Cheers & good luck!
Glenn
Utopian, thanks for pointing out the "rolling x," but I think I'm going to stay away from that for a while.
Sharp,
I had my fingers at the toe and heel of the blade, not in the middle. I noticed that the spine is also warn out a little more in the middle on that side, so I think I'm doing something wrong with my away stroke.
The other day I saw that video of GSSixgun doing it all on the norton 4k/8k stone. I looked for it in the wiki earlier today, but it wasn't there. I'll find it again.
I did try the TNT test once early on and it was really gritty. Kinda made me cringe. I thought I read that wasn't a good test since it dulls the edge, but I guess it is okay for checking the bevel.
I think I read to many threads and now all the info is jumbled around in my head.
Okay, so I'll try again when I have some free time. I guess I'll have to get used to the TPT and TNT. Thanks for your input.
FWIW --
1. If the TNT (thumb-nail test) feels "gritty", you don't have a good bevel. The TNT picks up irregularities in the edge. Until the blade passes TNT, stay with 1K.
2. The situation you describe:
. . . On one side, bevel is wide at the ends, narrow at the middle;
. . . On the other side, bevel is narrow at the ends, wide in the middle
is typical for a warped blade. The "rolling X-stroke" will sharpen the convex side (bevel wider in the middle). In a recent thread, Holli4pirating suggested a stroke that moves the bevel over the _edge_ of the stone, for sharpening the _concave_ side.
I tried that on a warped blade, and it worked better than anything else I did. Still needs more work though -- failed the "shave test" this morning.
If the blade is warped, "no pressure" (with straight-down-the-hone strokes) means that the concave side doesn't get sharpened in the middle!
Charles
What stone are you honing with right now? Also did you flatten it? It is possible that the stone is not flat and so it would be hard for the entire blade to be in contact with the stone.
The part that I colored is what draws my attention. It would seem to me that if you need to keep your finger on the blade in order to maintain contact your stroke is rather uneven (the pressure at various points on the blade varies a lot during the stroke) which would prevent your razor from developing a proper bevel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan79
I really don't know what to suggest as I don't have much experience teaching others to hone, but your best bet is to find somebody local who can help you in person. Randy (randydance<somenumbers>) used to do skype honing help with members who were having troubles, may be see if that could be done...
8BallAce, I'm using Norton stones. 1K, 4K and 8K. I used the norton lapping stone to flatten them. I penciled the grid on the stones to make sure it they were flat.
Gugi, it feels like I'm keeping it even when the other finger is behind the toe of the blade, but maybe I'm lifting or angling it weird and I can't tell.
I think I'll try coloring the edge black and to see how it looks. I suppose I should tape the spine, at this rate I'll have to buy another razor to practice on before I get it shave ready.
I am a new oldie at this and have read a good bit about this over the past years. If you are sharpening with a honing stone that has an uneven surface, it can cause the type of uneven sharpening as you speak of. Check your razor hone to see if it is completely flat or to make certain that you are using a hone that has been lapped. If the stone is truly flat, it will remove the same amount of metal at all points on the blade, if it is not completely flat it will not. Take a straightedge and lay on your stone and move it across the stone to make certain that there are no low or raised spots on your honing stone. Hope that helps some; just something else to check out. Sonny082
I lapped the stones, but I'll check it out. I figured that if the hone wasn't flat, the uneven areas of the bevel would be at the same place on the blade. I didn't take into account the x stroke.
That's true _if the edge is straight_ in 3 dimensions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny082
But with a completely flat stone, and a straight spine (another assumption):
If the blade is warped (wrapped around a cylinder), you'll get one wear pattern on one side, a different wear pattern on the other side.
If the edge "smiles" or "frowns", you'll get an uneven wear pattern, but it will be the same on both sides of the blade.
Life is complicated.
Charles